Reflecting on what Ambersun urges—a Latvian nation—this opens some questions. There is this “big world,” supposedly—and there’s even a supposed morality? So let’s hear Ojārs talk about Latvia’s friend Uzbekistan and its penchant for boiling dissidents, for instance. Let’s hear Ojārs take a stand on Tibet. The type of Realpolitik OK the PR Man plays at, and plays at very badly (so that Latvia is basically a bad joke, internationally), is both destructive and self-destructive. Ca. 70-80% of Latvians were against the invasion of Iraq, for instance. Ojārs knew better—America never lies. Ojārs is not ashamed—not at all.

/P

Peteri, this is an offer of a movie, not about Tibet or Uzbekistan or lying or Bush or…

Ojar, thanks for the offer.

Anita,

But due to lack of sponsorship, I am still at home waiting.

Cieņā,
/P

And Peter I am waiting for some answers from you on another thread.

And I don’t answer loaded questions that have nothing to do with anything said, mein Herr.

I realize that my attack upon OK might be seen as off topic, but it is not. I was taken aback by the phrase “weapon of mass instruction.”

That is really not so funny, especially coming from a guy who vociferously argued for the worst thing Latvia has ever done—the offering of wholehearted support to the violation of international law by invading a sovereign country under false pretenses.

We’ve discussed this… but OK can come back and joke about it now, with absolutely filthy hands. OK was challenged on this at the time by people who knew better, and yet he cannot face what he did, because he does not need to.

How cute.

/P

P.Cedrins,
Regardless of OK’s debatable choice of words,

In the propaganda war over what really happened during World War II, The Soviet Story is a powerful weapon of mass instruction.

Being the PR puppetmaster of LV does not give him the ear of the government nor the mouth either when it comes to moral compass of the government. As far as I can tell, LI is mainly about telling people how nice it is in LV, please come spend your money here! In addition, his personal opinion as to the Iraq quagmire (at best) and Uzbekistan should have little if any bearing on his job.
Maybe there is a responsibility and honesty required when you see the moral compass of LV and it’s attitude towards it’s citizens (Praids) or the ethnic minorities (russian) question, but where is the connection to Iraq and Uzbekistan?
Granted, he has a responsibility in putting “Latvijas Tels” out there for the world to see, but it isn’t as the mouthpiece of the government, i.e.; Scott Mc Clellan, Bush’s former press secretary who is in the news for his candid remarks in his book.
These seem to be two different things and I’m not sure how one has much to do with the other.

Int, OK, I can even agree with that…

I spend much of my time working for LV, too. But then we should all drop all sense of responsibility, and any pretense to morality? We are talking about snuffed nations and lots of dead people, and as the long gone Subcommandante [sic] suggested—no, Latvia was not on the sidelines in this. Latvia was at the forefront, despite the fact that most Latvians thought it was a bad idea. On TV at the time, OK could not even explain what Latvia’s position was, in theory—Ziemele and Domburs ate him for lunch.

And this is how things work. Ambersun shall fume at those nasty Russkies not recognizing the occupation. Never mind Raimonds Pauls, who also doesn’t think Latvia was occupied. Never mind Jurka. So hold your head high and wander about Kurdistan? A decade ago we had a plausible claim to innocence. No longer. We now vociferously support various totalitarian regimes, violations of international law, etc.

And when we get blowback—I guess we’ll all be pretty little victims again.

/P

Peteris Cedrins - 28 May 2008 12:13 PM

A decade ago we had a plausible claim to innocence. No longer. We now vociferously support various totalitarian regimes, violations of international law, etc.

And when we get blowback—I guess we’ll all be pretty little victims again.

/P

Peteri,
I agree with you here, and LV definitely can’t absorb the consequences of any “blowback”, not like Spain had to for example.
Latvija should pay attention to how quickly the terrible situations in the small countries of the world; Darfur, Palestine, etc. become yesterday’s news. Being in the same sandbox (EU, NATO) promises equality, but we all know some are more equal than others.
We are not one of the big dogs. Just look at how the Tibet issue dropped off of the world radar once some bigger news headline came along. For those 50 years of occupation in the happy SSR family, just replace “Tibet” with “Latvija”.

Ints

Ojars Kalnins et al.,

Thank you for the information.  Later this summer, when in Riga, I will drop by for the CD.

Visu labu,

Re: “Reflecting on what Ambersun urges—a Latvian nation...”

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3l3HVc5NwSM

Yes ,the craven Latvians should hide in their little holes in the ground waiting for the “blowback” from some 4th world camel jockeys who could not find the country with a GPS and map.  Unfortunately , the lessons of earlier dependence on “morality” in lieu of strong alliances appears lost to those who believe that Latvia’s hope for survival is to become the Vatican of Europe spouting the Gospel of Appeasement.

Go Ojars!

Peter:

1. I could not ‘lie’ about WMD’s because I did not ‘know’ one way or another. I believed Colin Powell. He lied, and like a lot of other people in the world who trusted him, I was taken in.
2. I never advocated invasion. I supported the Latvian government and what appeared to be a US strategy to force Saddam Hussein’s hand. I accepted invasion as a possible, but regrettable outcome.
3. I know you are not a fan of subtlety, nuance or logic, but don’t you think it’s a little bit over the top to claim that ‘many’ have died because of a position I took? This would imply that many would not have died had I taken a different position. The US decision to go to war in Iraq did not hinge on Latvia’s support, and Latvia’s position was not based on my advice. I simply provided an explanation and rationale for Latvia’s position.
4. What on earth does any of this have to do with ‘The Soviet Story’ and its role in setting the record straight on World War II, Stalin and the policies of the USSR? Your ‘reasoning’ suggests that my support of the film ‘The Soviet Story’ should be questioned because you disagree with my positions on other issues. You’ve got your ipso factos mixed up. 
5. Bush was obsessed with Hussein. You seem to be obsessed with me. By your logic, I could conclude that you have something in common with GWB. But I won’t operate by your logic. I think you mean well and try very hard and are to be commended for many of the good and valuable things you do.

Cheers!

Hadn’t read the other comments when I wrote the above remark. An afterthought for Peter:

Yes, ‘most’ Latvians did oppose the Latvian government’s position on Iraq way back when. But what about today? What do you suppose are the issues that concern ‘most’ Latvians today? Inflation, tolerance, corruption, distrust of politicians, job insecurity, low salaries in the public sector, healthcare, pensions, red tape, traffic safety etc. If we are really concerned about the waste of Latvian lives, we should be doing more about drunk drivers and all the other crazies that think that Latvia’s highways are a great venue for the demolition derby. I was once asked whether Latvia should fear terrorists. I answered that we already have them. They drive BMWs and Mercedes and Range Rovers on Latvia’s highways. At least suicide bombers have a reason for what they are doing (although I disagree with it.) Suicide drivers have no reasons whatsoever, other than thinking that macho is a license for mayhem.

Life moves on and those of us who care about the quality of life in this country are trying to deal with the issues that ‘most’ people find relevant today. VVF’s and Sandra Kalniete’s (or my) position on Iraq many years ago is not one of them, and you know that.

I’m one of those guys who always tries to see the good side of things, knowing full well that there is also a bad side. Since there are more than enough people pointing out all the bad things of Latvia, I’ve made it my responsibility to balance those with some good things. This strange penchant of mine also allows me to appreciate the good things people like Peter are doing for Latvia, despite what he thinks about me personally. I’m funny that way.

Labrīt, Ojār!

Following your numeration:

1. OK. I remember pointing out that such lies had been told before, though (Gulf of Tonkin, anyone?). The Subcommandante [sic] pointed that out, too. I am glad you acknowledge the lie—but what are the consequences? If you talk me into believing that the neighbor’s dog is rabid ‘cause the shifty-eyed vet told you so, and I go gun the mutt down—don’t you have some responsibility in the matter?

2. That’s a copout. If you go up to a guy and tell him to empty his pockets or you’ll beat the hell out of him, and the guy has Saddam’s history, you very well know you are likely to “have to” beat the hell out of him. If I stand next to you—everybody on the block staring out the windows—and say “right on, and I’ll help!” ...I’m part of it. I may be a twerp of no consequence, and you would’ve beaten him to a bloody pulp anyway—but I’m part of it.

How many times did Dubya count the countries on his side whilst speaking for the free world? And if we can’t do anything bad—we can’t do anything good, either. Then why bother with international missions at all? Why opine, even? To get a “go directly to NATO and collect $200” card? Is that what we are?

3. See 2, above. As to your personal part in this—you took part in what was unfortunately a meager national debate. Ziemele quite eloquently argued that Latvia should be supporting international law because Latvia depends upon international law. She was right, you were wrong, and the results are even worse than even the doom and gloom crowd predicted.

4. Nothing to do with The Soviet Story, and I’d love to get a copy of the flick! You said “weapon of mass instruction,” and I was deeply offended. I would think that such words would taste bad to you by now.

5. Nothing personal, Ojār. I kinda like you, even. I don’t think you’re Goebbels to Dubya’s Dolphie or anything.

Re your afterthought—that makes no sense to me at all. We have a foreign policy, don’t we? If it’s irrelevant—why have one? If the only thing that matters is the price of skābā krējuma izstrādājums, we may as well join a bunch of coalitions of the willing and invade all kinds of obscure countries fourth-worlders like Ogresdēls can’t find on the map—pot luck!

I happen to think that part of the miserabilism you refer to, which includes the distrust of politicians you mention, has a lot to do with the politikas izstrādājums, and that includes foreign policy. If a lot of people in Latvia really don’t see a difference between the democratic West and Putin’s Russia, it’s ‘cause of the demokrātijas izstrādājums.

Like you, I see a lot of good things, too—freedom of the press, for example. I think the “positivism” some promote (Grūtups not being the only or even close to the main one) is fundamentally opposed to that, though— it’s code for “enjoy the flowers, and check out those nifty cow statues—who cares if your mayor’s a crook” and like formulations, intertwined in a way where it’s hard to tell a root from a vine.

As a PR Man, you know about cred. We had cred. Lovely non-violent people singing and joining hands for freedom and democracy. We still lean heavily upon that cred—as heavily as ever, even. I doubt we’ve ever participated in an international forum without explaining how well we know the horrors of tyranny tradiridiralala.

Despite my strange rap here as an alumnus of Lumumba U. (it’s actually People’s Friendship U. these days—Patrice lost his cachet), I ain’t no pinko and am actually a staunch Atlanticist. We do do good—I support the mission in Afghanistan, for instance, and the assistance we offer to Georgia is important. Georgians have said they won’t forget our friendship—and I believe them. Like Latvians, they know the horrors of tyranny tradiridiralala.

The trouble is that there comes a point where the cred we lean upon becomes a husk. It is hypocritical to sing about freedom, democracy, and the horrors of tyranny tradiridiralala but pick and choose between principled positions. Have we harsh words for Islom Karimov? Can we muster a resolution on Tibet—even a watery one that would anyway be adopted by the EU a little later? We even have trouble supporting Estonia. No trouble attending the inauguration ceremonies in Kazakhstan at the highest level, though—great success!

I’d far prefer crude honesty. Say it, Ojār—we joined the coalition of the willing ‘cause otherwise Uncle Sam mightn’t let us into NATO (though we still don’t get visa-free travel—soon, soon). And when the alumnae of Lumumba U. say “Latvia is a Potemkin state, a US lackey heavily into intolerance”—how do you feel? If you asked me a few years ago, my hackles would have gone way up. They still do—but I get a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach.

That dreaded Bohemian intellectual, Alvis Hermanis: demokrātijas iznīcināšana saucas par pozitīvisma kampaņām.

Back when you were supporting the invasion—and I still say you were, for the reasons given—I quoted the poet Agita Draguna on overhearing VVF and thinking she was back in the USSR before she looked at the TV and realized that the speaker was a woman she deeply respected. That disconnect is where the really serious problem lies, I think. Because I do love Latvians and the tauta (both Latvijas and latviešu), and I think we’re much too smart and even noble for this sort of degradation. And if it continues? Hermanis again: Mūsu izdzīvošanas instinkts ir izkopts un noslīpēts līdz perfektai pilnībai. To pierādīja arī nesenais kolektīvais eksperiments ar čurāšanu uz galvas. Izrādās, tikai dažiem tūkstošiem no visas tautas nostrādāja reflekss — atvērt lietussargu.

Vysu lobu,
/P

Comment from an academic (not Lumumba U.) who wishes to remain anonymous --

Think Ojars on thin ice declaring he was taken in by Colin Powell.  There was ample evidence and many voices delivering it--many quite informed--demonstrating the error of Bush’s position.  If one was duped by Powell, then what else is one in error on?  Moreover, if one is merely to default to maintaining strong alliances detached from moral considerations, then Latvia, according to Ojars’ logic, better get ready to line up behind Russia and China, because they are the future.  The only possibility for checking them will be an enlightened EU and nations acting on ethical grounds that can mobilize global public opinion in their support.  Latvian support for the Iraq war was a gross strategic miscalculation structurally along the lines of Cuban support of the USSR in 1968 when it went into Prague, but functionally much worse given the number of deaths involved…