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Disinformation of the Day
 
Peteris Cedrins
Posted: 25 November 2006 10:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]  
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I’m afraid I won’t have time to respond more fully for some time, Edigu, so just a few words on a few of your points --

1) It’s hardly “the elitist Latvian society” that has led to “žīdi” largely being replaced by “ebreji”; most Jews in Latvia are Russophones, and very many consider “žīds” an extremely offensive, derogatory term (even many of those who understand the term’s Latvian history still detest it).

2) How can one ask for Yiddish schools when there are almost no Yiddish speakers at all, and when the language isn’t of very much, if any, interest to most? Most instruction at the Jewish school is in Russian—that’s how the Jews who attend it prefer it.

The Hebrew language has indeed been favored—many people who have studied Hebrew make aliyah, and Hebrew is the language they’ve wanted to learn.

3) By “ended up,” I didn’t mean to imply that Celmiņš was killed in a German concentration camp—sorry for the confusion.

I’m well aware of the rest of his career, and have written about it at this forum and elsewhere, somewhat extensively. In fact, I’ve written about much of what you dredge up—and I draw very different conclusions from these matters.

I brought him up in this context because the “travelogue” I found to be twisted made remarks about “Latvian Nazis.” Even Pērkonkrusts was not Nazi (not that Celmiņš wasn’t dying to collaborate—he was, but the offer was rejected).

4) The Pērkonkrusts of the 1990s had nothing whatsoever to do with the original group—or not any more than, say, the American Nazi Party of George Lincoln Rockwell had to do with the NSDAP.

5) The Pērkonkrusts of the 1990s, Gedroics, Inkins, et al., are completely marginalized groups and figures. Latvietis Latvijā has less influence in Riga that the People’s Weekly World does in Washington, D.C.

Some of these rags, which are produced by a handful of people and are read by pretty much nobody, have been shuttered. Landmanis was tried and sentenced for his anti-Semitic activities. Pērkonkrusts was banned, and its members were tried and sentenced.

There is certainly anti-Semitism in Latvia, and I have never denied that. You make a fool of yourself, however, by focusing upon fringe groups that have nearly zero influence on what anti-Semitism there is (which anti-Semitism is increasingly a problem, unfortunately). You make yourself look even worse by deliberately omitting facts (and this is obviously deliberate, since you manage to supply considerable information whilst not mentioning the fact that these groups have clashed with the law, Pērkonkrusts no longer exists and anyway consisted of a handful of people who were seemingly clinically disturbed… and even Brīvā Latvija {right-wing, but not usually a purveyor of “drivel"} is actually quite difficult to find in Latvia).

As to Vilnius—perhaps Vidas can comment. I don’t really understand what you’re trying to say, frankly—of course Vilnius is a Lithuanian city. It is “selfish” to treat it as such? Užupis (which anyway was a mixed quarter) should be preserved as a museum, just as Latvian schools should teach Yiddish?

I live in Daugavpils, which was a major regional center of the Jewish religion and culture prior to the Holocaust. Almost nothing remains of that דענענבורג, obviously—I don’t see how it could possibly be restored. One can construct Holocaust memorials in the woods (as has been done—the artist, a Jew, is a friend of mine {and he doesn’t speak Yiddish}), restore the synagogue, and build a monument and a center devoted to a Jewish son nobody ever heard of during the occupation (Mark Rothko). One can place plaques and name a street after Mikhoels. One can educate people about history. Beyond that, there’s a bit of a problem—there are almost no Jews left here, and most of those who remain aren’t Jewish by religion, culture, or language.

Regards,
/P

UPDATED—

[ Edited: 25 November 2006 10:56 PM by ]
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doable
Posted: 26 November 2006 09:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]  
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That’s the way to tell them Monte,

Chin up right to the end.

Amen

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Vidas
Posted: 26 November 2006 11:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]  
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“As to Vilnius—perhaps Vidas can comment.”

Nah. Why bother ?

This song Edigu sings sounds very familiar.

“I don’t really understand what you’re trying to say, frankly—of course Vilnius is a Lithuanian city. It is “selfish” to treat it as such? Užupis (which anyway was a mixed quarter) should be preserved as a museum, just as Latvian schools should teach Yiddish?”

I expect that Edigu prefers Uzupis during its soviet years ? Who needs todays modern day plumbing ? The open sewer trenches of the soviet period were certainly much more respectful…

Edigu brings this “disinformation of the day” thread a new focus - highlighted by his manic desperation shown above.

Vidas

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Bruno the Lett
Posted: 27 November 2006 05:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]  
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“Historically, Estonia and Latvia lagged behind Lithuania in accepting Jews. In 1561, Ivan IV of Russia (Ivan the Terrible) defeated the German Order and the Livonian Confederation came to an end. With its demise, new lands were made available to Jews. The first Jewish settlements were in the lands closest to Lithuania with its already well established Jewish communities. Because of the strong power base of German merchants in Riga, they were able to obstruct Jews from living there until the mid-nineteenth century. In 1840 the laws which restricted Jewish residence were lifted, and by 1881 there were over 33,000 Jews living in Riga. It was difficult for Jews to attain to the higher positions in government and city affairs.”

Latvians had nothing to do with “accepting” or not accepting the jews.  The jews arrived with or shortly after, “piggy back” on the germanic knights from the west, who enslaved the local latvians. Later more jews arrived “piggy back” with the russians invasion from the east.
And the new lands made available to the jews that you talk about was the land robbed from the enslaved latvians.
So much for your “oi vei” about estonians and latvians lagging behind lithuanians in accepting the jews.

Visu labu,

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Peteris Cedrins
Posted: 06 December 2006 10:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]  
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“in light of the latest biased articled {sic}
PC came across”

That’s very cute. So I suppose I could draw a similar portrait of many another country by trawling various Internet fora?

Personally, I love biased articles. I just cut one up today! It was delicious --

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Peteris Cedrins
Posted: 06 December 2006 02:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]  
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Labrīt!

Out of curiosity—other than in the Latvian forum comments here… anybody at LOL ever think about this beautiful little “compensation” law? 

Vysu lobu,
/P

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peter B
Posted: 06 December 2006 10:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]  
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>Labrīt!
>
>Out of curiosity—other than in the
>Latvian forum comments here… anybody
>at LOL ever think about this beautiful
>little “compensation” law? 
>
>Vysu lobu,
>/P
////////////////////////////

You mean the 32 million lat grant to
the jewish community?

pete

pete

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pete

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