What is the issue with Jewish restitution?

Are families of Jews who lived in Latvia being treated differently than heirs of Latvian emigrants?

Are synagogues being treated differently than churches?

Is this simple discrimination against Jews b/c they are Jews or is there some other basis for whatever the existing policy may be.

Feel free to point me to an article that discusses the issue clearly.

Vilis

Šī lapa izdrukāta no DELFI portāla
Adrese: http://aculiecinieks.delfi.lv/archive/print.php?id=42470496

Valdis Kalnozols: Ebreju fenomens jeb latvieši arī var
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Valdis Kalnozols

DELFI Aculiecinieks | 
28. jūnijs 2012 16:09

Foto: DELFI Aculiecinieks Latvijā aktualizējies jautājums par ebreju pirmskara īpašumu atgūšanu. Nerunāšu par šo prasību pamatotību, vai ir juridiski korekti sabiedriskai organizācijai atgriezt pirms kara piederošos īpašumus. Nerunāšu arī, kurai tautai tas pienāktos vairāk un kurai mazāk, jo līdzīgas prasības varētu izvirzīt arī citu tautu pārstāvji. Bet runāšu, kāpēc šis jautājums ir tik aktuāls, ka pat prasījis tieslietu ministra Gaida Bērziņa krēslu?!
Ebreji ir viena no saliedētākajām un vienotākajām kopienām pasaulē, kura spēj aizstāvēt savas tautas intereses visā pasaulē. Kāpēc arī mēs nevarētu vienoti un stingri aizstāvēt savas tautas un Latvijas intereses? Tautas iekšējos procesos aktīvi diskutēt, strīdēties, sacensties, bet ārēji būt vienotiem un stingri aizstāvēt savas Dzimtenes un tautas intereses?! Ebreju tautai ir savas vēsturiskās priekšrocības, kas sakņojas viņu reliģijā. Jūdaisms ne tikai vienoja tautu, bet arī palīdzēja radīt sākotnējo finanšu kapitālu. Kristietībā “augļu” jeb procentu gūšana, no aizdotās naudas, Bībelē ir nosodāma rīcība, taču ebreji jau viduslaikos guva augļus no naudas aizdošanas! Ebreju kopiena, līdzīgi kā Templiešu ordenis, bija viena no pirmajām sava veida bankas struktūrām, pieņemot savu tautiešu izrakstītos vērtspapīrus visā pasaulē, tā sekmējot naudas kustību pasaulē un kapitāla uzkrāšanos jūdu kopienā. Par Rokfelleru un Rotšildu ģimeņu bagātību zina gandrīz ikkatrs pasaules iedzīvotājs.

Finanšu uzkrājumi veido tautas neatkarību, arī dod iespēju kontrolēt medijus, vienu no demokrātiskās sabiedrības galvenajiem sabiedriskās domas veidojošiem instrumentiem. Finanšu līdzekļu ziedojumi politiskām partijām palīdz iegūt atbalstu dažādu jautājumu risināšanā.

Ebreji nav vienīgā pasaules tauta, kuru vieno kopīga reliģijā. Arī zoroastristi Parsi no senās Irānas un Indijas ir spējuši saglabāt un apvienoties ap savu, tūkstošiem gadu veco, reliģiju. Parsu redzamākie pārstāvji ir dziedātājs Fredijs Merkurijs, indiešu auto rūpnieks RatansTata , kuram Lielbritānijā pieder Jaguar Land Rover autobūves uzņēmums. Arī Libānas kristieši maronīti ir saliedēti un atbalstoši visā pasaulē . Redzamākie viņu pārstāvji ir dziedātāja Šakira, aktrise Selma Hajeka un pasaules bagātākais cilvēks, Meksikas miljardieris Karloss Slims. Vēl saliedētāka un vienotāka ebreju kopiena ir kalnu ebreji Tati, kuri nāk no Azerbeidžānas un Dagestānas kalnu apvidiem.

Arī mūsu tautai ir sava reliģija - Dievturība, kura saglabājusies mūsu tautas teikās. Tikko nosvinētie Jāņi - vasaras Saulgrieži, ir Dievturības svētki ar tiem raksturīgajiem rituāliem.

Tautas vienotības sajūtu ir jāaudzina jau no bērnības. Jūdi no mazotnes saka, lai neatkārtotos otrā pasaules kara holokausts, tautai jābūt vienotai! Jūdaisms sekmē pašpārliecinātību, bez kuras ir grūti sasniegt mērķus. Mūsu tauta augsti godā labi padarītu darbu, bieži fizisku darbu, bet tikpat svarīgi ir dot apziņu, cik svarīgs ir prāts! Ortodoksāls jūds nevar darīt fizisku darbu, lai sevi nodrošinātu, to viņam jāprot izdarīt pielietojot prāta spējas.

Mūsu tauta kritiskās situācijas spēj būt vienota, to parādīja, piemēram, nesenais valodas referendums, kad Londonā tautieši stundām stāvēja rindā, lai nobalsotu par latviešu valodu!
Kāpēc mēs, tikpat vienoti un stipri, neaizstāvējām tiesības, piemēram, uz Abrenes teritoriju?! Kāpēc pasaules varenie atlaiž miljardu parādu Grieķijai, bet ne mūsu valstij?! Tā nebija mūsu valsts, kura spekulēja ar tukšu gaisu, jeb tā saucamajiem finanšu instrumentiem, kas noveda pie pasaules ekonomiskās krīzes!

Atbalstīsim un iedrošināsim savus paziņas, kolēģus, radus un draugus, kuri ir enerģiski un iniciatīvas bagāti, veidot uzņēmumus, tādējādi sekmējot Latvijas tautsaimniecības attīstību! Atbalstīsim tos, kas nebaidās paust mūsu kopīgo viedokli politiskās struktūrās! Kad Latvija būs ekonomiski stipra, mēs spēsim parūpēties par visiem iedzīvotāju sociālajiem slāņiem! Tikai no tautas vienotības, spēka un prāta ir atkarīga mūsu tautas un Dzimtenes Latvijas nākotne!

Kārlis Ulmanis - “Tautas vienotībā ir spēks!”

Stingri aizliegts DELFI publicētos materiālus izmantot citos interneta portālos, masu informācijas līdzekļos vai jebkur citur, kā arī jebkādā veidā izplatīt, tulkot, kopēt, reproducēt vai kā citādi rīkoties ar DELFI publicētajiem materiāliem bez rakstiskas DELFI atļaujas saņemšanas, bet, ja atļauja ir saņemta, DELFI ir jānorāda kā publicētā materiāla avots.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/157186

http://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/31450/

http://www.leta.lv/eng/home/important/5E300D35-DDD2-4201-9B72-9546B401315A/

” ... Returning the properties to their lawful owners would mean restoration of justice, stressed Bivas, adding that it was an important matter to the entire Jewish nation, and that solving the problem would be seen as a statement against racism, anti-Semitism and all those wrongs that caused the tragedies of World War II…” from leta.lv article.

The whole planet would go into a deep spiral downwards if everyone demanded restitution from every country that didn’t start the war, or even wanted to participate.
Surely the restitution can only be claimed from the countries that did start the war.

The jews want their public buildings back.
The Latvians (some) would like their homes back.

I’m taking a guess, but most of the people I saw in the ghetto area, last year I would say were russians.
One leaned out of his 2nd floor window & shouted at me, to ‘f-off’ for taking photos.

http://www.wjro.org.il/Web/AboutUs/Profile/Default.aspx

“and to remind these governments and world public opinion that the time has arrived to redress the enormous material wrongs caused to European Jewry during the Holocaust. ” ... from wjro.org

This maybe should be addressed to Aleksejs.
Obviously these people too haven’t ‘moved on’.
Or is it, their time to move back?

Nice and easy, aint it to refer back to the Holocaust yet again.
As if nobody else had suffered.

And .. er .. ah ... how many jews were members of the peaceful international brotherhood of bolsheviks that coercly stole the jewish property (after the blue nasties)?

Can I at least get back the valuables / heirlooms my parents buried in someone’s backyard?

I’m not familiar with the subject, but I think it’s the question of returning property to the Jewish organizations, not individuals. Not all property was returned to the Jewish groups after the restored independence. For example, a Stabu iela synagogue building now houses several minor educational institutions. For those who understand the language of the country they so dearly love, we are talking about 270 properties.

PS Maris, what are you on about? “The Latvians (some) would like their homes back.” The property has been restored to their owners. The government even created a fund to compensate people the loss of their property. My own (Russian) family received the land that used to be belong to us in the Latgale region. What gives?

PPS Clinton presses Latvia to give back Jewish property

Supposedly this mess has something to do with railcar purchase.

I think that we all should get our properties back,
not just some of us…...........................and the
cost should be borne by those who started the war.

peter B - 29 June 2012 04:20 AM

Supposedly this mess has something to do with railcar purchase.

I think that we all should get our properties back,
not just some of us…...........................and the
cost should be borne by those who started the war.

I bet you want that 1928 Ford back too?

“I bet you want that 1928 Ford back too? “

Not really. Property, as in real estate.

But I did own a ‘58 Olds S-88.

Vinde,
Not a very lawyerly place to start:

“Is this simple discrimination against Jews b/c they are Jews or is there some other basis for whatever the existing policy may be. “

If you don’t mind my saying so, it does appear that the “presumption of innocence” is not evenly applied by someone who has practiced law in New York for years.  Also, seems you have rushed to judgment with your assumption that there, in fact, exists “discrimination against Jews”  - on “some basis” - if not “simple discrimination” (whatever that means) - which you don’t know for any known fact, or on any basis, “simple” or merely “some.” Furthermore, this (about which you write) is based on the existence of an “exisitng policy…whatever [it] may be” since you also don’t know any facts about this presumption of existence, but would like facts you don’t have - about your prejudicial assumptions about “discrimination [prejudice] against Jews.”  I wonder what grade Jeffrey would give you.  It’s not because I have a law degree that I think you should get an an F.

Don’t mind my saying so, but it appears you have plenty of chutzpah to translate Rainis (found your book info in A2 at ALA) while being so poorly informed on Latvian issues and Latvian history (as well as naive about “the truth” in history storytelling and about the scholarly objectivity and lack of agenda of historians).  I can’t blame you for wanting more info on this topic but this is not new news if you read Latvian news.  It also would be helpful if you withheld judgment until you knew all the facts.  You know how that works.  Perhaps you might think to phrase your question in a less conclusory manner when you don’t know, well, really anything, but obviously carry prejudicial preconceptions. 

This may not be the best place to backtrack to your statements on another thread about history and “trimda kids” who were taught “distorted history,” but I did wonder what motivated that display of prejudicial assumptions about “trimda kids” (like we all attended school together) and how someone as educated as you are would even think to equate “Soviet BS” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_in_the_Soviet_Union with real history, even when you subjectively think it “distorted.”  It’s not because I have a degree in History from the U of Mich (Ann Arbor) that I write this but because I was a “trimda kid” who always wished that the normal national US history I was taught in my US grade/high schools had a few sentences about Latvia being abandoned by “the Allies”  behind the Iron Curtain subjected to endless “Soviet BS.”

This has got to be THE quote of the year!  Ambersun giving expert advice to Vinde:

“It also would be helpful if you withheld judgment until you knew all the facts.  You know how that works.  Perhaps you might think to phrase your question in a less conclusory manner when you don’t know, well, really anything, but obviously carry prejudicial preconceptions.”

Irena

Couldn’t resist…still laughing out loud!!!

Amber anonymously schoolmarms the hapless Vinde:

“Perhaps you might think to phrase your question in a less conclusory manner when you don’t know, well, really anything, but obviously carry prejudicial preconceptions.”

Smejos skaļi !

Yup, the irony of Ambersun (Ambersun!) saying

Perhaps you might think to phrase your question in a less conclusory manner when you don’t know, well, really anything, but obviously carry prejudicial preconceptions.

is also not lost on me!

Also, marisr - I in no way mean to discourage anyone who has been separated from all things Latvian for most of his life from exploring such things.  But please remember that the world doesn’t, and shouldn’t, revolve around when any particular individual renews interest in his/her roots.  Most Latvians interested in regaining their property looked into it when Latvia regained independence 20some years ago.  I’m glad for your renewed interest, and I’m sorry you missed your chance.  But it’s really not a systemic failure.

Anita, who owns a peat bog and part of a swamp.  That she filed papers for in the early 90s.  The mosquitoes are fierce, but the birdlife is magnificent.

I hope I haven’t accidently posted this twice???

The implication in most of these articles is that Latvia is at fault.
H. Clinton ( & others) refers to the nazis and the communists as being the cause of the situation, but blames Latvia for not giving the jews what they want / demand.
Say what?
Latvia wasn’t even Latvia when the stealing happened.
Why should IT now be compulsorily made to hand the properties back to the original owners? ie organizations.

” Returning the properties to their lawful owners would mean restoration of justice..”
Justice?  Why don’t they request restitution from the parties that started the war?

Nazi Germany ... finished ... therefore option closed.
Soviet Union ... finished ... therefore option closed.

Ah .. Latvia ... revived / reconstituted ... therefore option open.

“and to remind these governments and world public opinion that the time has arrived to redress the enormous material wrongs caused to European Jewry during the Holocaust. ”
Did Latvia (the non-existant) do this? ... or did Nazi Germany?

Aleksejs ..“What gives?..”
If you had only a couple of hours max. to pack up all that meant everything to you, given a max of 20kg? each of weight, knowing you were to be deported, do you think that one had the time or foresight to pack legal documentation of property ownership?
And then if one was lucky enough to survive deportation, do you think those documents would have survived?

Why don’t these people just remember what they once had, and ‘move on’?
Just like you told us in a different thread to do.

My viewpoint is not against the jews, but against Latvia being raped again, for something it did not commit.
Latvia does not / should not have to pay for the crimes of others.
The jewry should get the financial restitution from russia and germany, and buy the buildings back.

Anita,
” Most Latvians interested in regaining their property looked into it when Latvia regained independence 20some years ago. “
Maybe, in your part of the world.
Most? / certainly many of the Latvians in my part of the world (as I remember them), were the relatively young, property-less; targetted ‘intelligencia’... lawyers, doctors, architects. engineers etc
They had relatives (incl my mother’s - Jaunpiebalga) in the country that owned farms ... whether those country folk ever got their farms back, I have no idea.

Justice,like democracy, is nefarious ... means different things to different people.

PS .. there is Latvian a guy (I can’t remember the who/where/when article right now .. but it was recently on the LOL pages), who is demanding millions from the Latvian govt for retribution.
      Maybe I should demand from the Oz govt, my version of financial compensation / retribution;    seeing as Oz was an ally of the victorious soviets?

PPS

http://www.ushmm.org/research/center/publications/details.php?content=2007-06-02

H. Clinton ( & others) refers to the nazis and the communists as being the cause of the situation, but blames Latvia for not giving the jews what they want / demand.

Did I get that right: the Jewish organizations demand their old property back while the Latvian organizations restore their property rights?

do you think that one had the time or foresight to pack legal documentation of property ownership?

We didn’t have the original paperwork for our piece of property. But, you know, ahem, there are archives in Latvia where you could have found information about what property, as in real estate, your family owned. My grandfather went that route.

The jewry should get the financial restitution from russia and germany, and buy the buildings back

It sounds to me that it’s a question of fairness. Latvian organizations and individuals (especially in the Abrene region) received a compensation if their property no longer existed, if I’m not mistaken. Why make it seem like the Jewish organizations do not somehow deserve that their property rights should be restored?

I see some of the LoL cabal is getting ready for DZ Svetki in Milwaukee and exercising their lungs in their usual and expected way against Latvians in preparation for singing Saule Perkons Daugava with tears in their eyes.  Vidas no doubt has his bags packed and his Latvian perfected.  Unfortunately, one may have to be with the teachers, if still even living, who taught that “distorted history,” and those darned folk songs and dances.  Maybe there’s still time to sue them for their failures in light of all the brilliant successes in the diaspora since and in beloved-and-nurtured Latvia that have followed this substandard volunteer (and Soviet BS equivalent) effort.  This must be the ourpouring of the vision jandz longs for from his “Latvians,” the Latvian/Russian-speaking tauta with Vidas and some other early-onset-only-in-Latvia  internationalists.

I hear a Hong Kong reporter has just upset Chinese President by asking uncomfortable questions.