An interesting premise to bring the original raison d’etre for Uzvaras Laukums-the victory over the Bermontiesi-back to that contested landscape in Pardaugava.
Here is the link to the initiative on Manabalss.lv. Go there if you would like to cast a vote in support of this initiative.  here is a a link to the website/blog.
I don’t think that slavishly building the original monument would be appropriate now, but I do think that recasting Uzvaras laukums as a memorial to all of Latvijas citizens who fought to free Latvija-free the country from the “greys” as well as the “reds” and the Bermontiesi for sure-would help get the country past this politicized annual crapfest every spring.
FWIW Veiko Spolitis is a vocal supporter of this effort, at least according to an article in Diena.

The subject of removing the Pardaugava Monstrosity has come up on this forum several times over the years.  But, unless the legal situation has changed recently (which I doubt), the current initiative will be quixotic at best.  The Manabalss site states that the organizers are experts in law, political affairs, etc.  Are they unaware of the Latvian-Russian bilateral treaty to protect military monuments and burial grounds in each other’s country? 

Some years ago I made the suggestion that, since the monument itself cannot be touched, there ought to be professionally designed, prominent signage placed at all the Uzvaras Park entrances explaining, among other things: the origin of the monument (erected by the Soviet Union, not the people of Latvia); that the victory of the red army over the germans did not bring liberation for the people of Latvia, but almost 50 more years of occupation.  The signage would be in various languages, but most especially—in Russian—to educate the tourists who flock there, and the new generation that is growing up ignorant of even the relatively recent past.  But I was informed by a lawyer in Latvia who I consulted that this, too, is specifically banned by the treaty.

ak

ps I have never been able to find out what Latvian monuments and burial grounds are being protected in Russia under this “bilateral” agreement.  Perhaps some of our armchair military historians here may know.

andrejs komendantovs et al.,
“Are they unaware of the Latvian-Russian bilateral treaty to protect military monuments and burial grounds in each other’s country? “. 

The monuments can be relocated, and protected.

Visu labu,

Bruno—

From a purely engineering standpoint, monuments can be relocated, yes.

Without having read the actual treaty, I think I would be safe in assuming any such relocation would have to be approved by the other side.  Given who the other side is, I do not think such approval would be forthcoming.

ak

I find it mildly amusing that a draft of the Ulmanis-glorifing complex (“bigger than in the 1936 Berlin Olympic station”) is used as an illustration. And Bruno, the petition doesn’t mention moving the monument to another location. “Savākt sabiedrības ziedojumus (saņemt valsts dotācijas/Krievijas kompensāciju) PSRS armijas memoriāla demontāžai un Uzvaras laukuma infrastruktūras izmainīšanai vadoties pēc sākotnējā projekta.”

PS Ko darīt ar Uzvaras pieminekli? (especially the bit about changing anything about the monument.)

Spasibo, Aleksej for confirming my understanding of the impossibility of removing the monument (in the real world).  Personally, I would like the whole f-ing thing to be blown up and the remaining scraps of metal smelted into a bell that would be rung on the appropriate dates of commemoration of all the victims of the last century in the Latvian land.  The only problem is that the new generation would go deaf from all the ringing….

ak

” .... Personally, I would like the whole f-ing thing to be blown up and the remaining scraps of metal smelted ...”
I couldn’t agree more.

Does this mean that today’s KGB equivalent will be bashing down the door at 3:00am?
Not that I lock the door anyway.

I undoubtedly am not advocating in support of the quixotic striving for the impossible-getting rid of the soviet monument. This is not an option in the near term as many have pointed out.
What was interesting to me is the idea of transforming Uzvaras Laukums from a place only associated with Soviet Latvija and the PSRS to something that is for all latvian citizens. That is why I specifically mentioned the current commemoration of the latvians who fought against the Nazis, commemorating the latvians fighting against the Bermontiesi and those latvians who fought against the Reds.
The common theme here being the commemoration of Latvians who fought for their country and their ideals. It would hopefully shift the focus away from the Soviet effort against Nazism to the many Latvian efforts to protect their country and identity.
I know this is not what the manabalss.lv effort is about but With this change in focus I think this could be a step in the right direction.

This is a case of the “tail wagging the dog.” The law is meant to serve the needs of a democratic people.  Here I thought this was elementary knowledge, both in theory and practice.  Just look at Putin and how any law he doesn’t like in the “democracy ” of Russia, he changes.  Try to have “free speech” in Russia after the new laws Putin just created to serve “his people.” And what law precribed that a president in Russia could only serve a limited term. 
Love those law-abiding Latvians who don’t get it that they are the government and the law.  All they have to do is look to the Russians in Latvia and the last referendum.
Shucks, unless you know why you would allow any law to restrict your freedom and curb your interests, why accept without clear knowledge what exactly is the law and ignorantly chant abou its immutability like you were still some slave under the Czars or Soviets or whatever. Maybe a referendum to move Monstrs is in order.  You would think Jandzs would have been out on the streets long ago gathering signatures for a referendum to get Monstrs replaced by Janis. 
This is also a case of “where’s there’s a will, there’s a way.”  As they say about so many lesser things: Just do it!  Nothing like years wasted and opportunites in cold winters missed.  Who would have noticed on a gray Latvian winter day that Monstrs was gone, moved to Purvciems.  Someone should consult the Estonians for a semblance of fariness and Putin-Russians for how to get the job done in the dark of night with no evidence.  Aleksejs, what is your problem with dead Ulmanis when most Russians know nothing but Soviet lies about him?  It’s Putin who is the prominent leader who inspires many of today’s Russians in Latvia, including Ushakovs and the many others who take Moscow/Putin money to advance Putin-Russian interests in Latvia, like the Russian language referendum.
Finally, no silly laws stood in the way of the occupant Russians remaining in Latvia after renewed independence and the end of occupation - which didn’t de facto end because they didn’t leave (the “occupation” they never admitted to) - in contravention of those silly international laws, agreements, whatever.  I hate to suggest googling.  Of course, there also were treaties and agrrements between nations, not only the Russian/German Pact, some even signed by Ulmanis before the occupation and the coming of the occupants.  Oh well, then there were the rules of war.  Mass deportation, even if by heated trains (as claimed by Soviet “historians”) was not ok.  It makes getting rid of Monstrs seem a cinch.  Occupy Uzvaras Park (make it a new “they came, they sang” Festival Park)  - and deport Monstrs to Moscow, if not Siberia.

Recreate the area in to a bird sanctuary…..............

Bring a bag of birdseed to the monument on your walk around the hood…..............

Just do it!

I’m truly delighted to see Ambersun putting forth her ideas so concretely, instead of hiding behind links and the like. To obtain symbolic satisfakcija in a country of the mind she won’t live in, she’d happily drag us into war both civil and with a neighbor that happens to be a wee bit bigger than we are. There are so many weird things in this latest screed I won’t enumerate them, but I must say I’m reminded of jingojonny and his joystick, except that he was comparatively sane. It’s bad enough to suggest that we break international agreements because others do. What’s really frightening is the glib way in which “occupants”—human beings, most of them born here—could be blithely deported, by Ambi’s logic. I’m glad Ambersun doesn’t live here. The Baltics aren’t the Balkans for a reason. Cool heads.

But I don’t think I can even reread Ambi’s hogwash. Linderman is a “Putin-Russian”?

/P

And what law precribed that a president in Russia could only serve a limited term.

He had served his two terms. Then he put in a seat warmer. And now he can serve another two terms. Putin didn’t violate the letter of the law. A favorite excuse by our own politicians when they are in trouble, including the head of the parliamentary fraction from the Unity party—part of tiesiskuma koalicija—it’s not against the law. Of course, it doesn’t excuse Putin’s return to power, or justifies falsifications of the elections. But this kind of shallow analysis from the armchair nationalist on the sandy beaches of Lake Michigan reminds me of Mr. Slice, who spent a month on his holiday in Spain thinking about saving his country.

Love those law-abiding Latvians who don’t get it that they are the government and the law.  All they have to do is look to the Russians in Latvia and the last referendum.

The funny thing is that the last referendum frightened the bejeezus out of the political elite that has been working day and night trying to make the future referenda a bit more complicated. But the language law or even a constitutional amendment is not on the same level as, say, a bilateral international agreement. No one asked the Latvians if they wanted to be in NATO. No one will be asking the Latvians if they want to be in the euro zone.

Who would have noticed on a gray Latvian winter day that Monstrs was gone, moved to Purvciems.  Someone should consult the Estonians for a semblance of fariness and Putin-Russians for how to get the job done in the dark of night with no evidence.

Ah, yes, Estonians. Because no one noticed the removal of the Bronze Soldier in Estonia. It isn’t like they had riots or anything. Fariness indeed.

Aleksejs, what is your problem with dead Ulmanis when most Russians know nothing but Soviet lies about him?
What lies would that be? How do you know? Where is the data? My problem with Ulmanis is that the man killed the democracy in this country, instituted a mild cult of personality and was essentially instrumental in a peaceful transition, helping the Soviets to replace the Latvian dictator with the Soviet one.

It’s Putin who is the prominent leader who inspires many of today’s Russians in Latvia, including Ushakovs and the many others who take Moscow/Putin money to advance Putin-Russian interests in Latvia, like the Russian language referendum.

Really? I had followed the news before the referendum. The Kremlin was surprisingly quiet on the matter. True democracy isn’t the Kremlin’s strong suit. Several Russians in Latvia have said that they now believe they can influence the political process. Shouldn’t that be welcome in the democratic society? Who better to defend the interests of Russians here than the Russians themselves, without Putin? What evidence do you have that Ushakov takes money from Putin? Foreign support of political parties in Latvia is against the law. I suggest you pick up the phone and call KNAB, providing them with evidence. This is huge.

And I’m shocked, ambi, that you would suggest that Latvia stoop down to the level of your loathsome Russia and tear up any international obligations it has signed, which include, for example, taking care of Russian soldier graves here and the Latvian graves in Russia. But then again, ambi, you were never fond of the first Sunday of December, when we commemorate the death of many Latvians at the hands of Stalin in 1938.

Aleksejs et al.,
“And Bruno, the petition doesn’t mention moving the monument to another location. “Savākt sabiedrības ziedojumus (saņemt valsts dotācijas/Krievijas kompensāciju) PSRS armijas memoriāla demontāžai un Uzvaras laukuma infrastruktūras izmainīšanai vadoties pēc sākotnējā projekta.” “

That is even better.  Gather the signatures to tear down ( demontāza) of the monument. When the Kremlin starts screaming, compromise and propose to relocate the monument. There is nothing special about this particular monument. Its equivalent was likely erected in Moldovia, Ukraine etc.  One wonders how was this monument question handled in all these other countries.

Visu labu,

That is even better. 

It is a good thing you don’t have to live in this country.

As to Ukraine, if they handle their monuments (BTW, the Russian navy never left Ukraine), the way they handle their language issue, we’ve got a lot to learn.

PS Check out these photos featuring everyone’s favorite Putin (and even Stalin!) and various WW2 monuments in Ukraine, Kyrgyzstan, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Georgia, Germany (who can forget the Treptow Park memorial), and Moldova.

Just in case a picture is required… it really is a grand Soviet-scale monstrosity. As for it being, ultimately, a symbol of Baltic re-subjugation, those who lay wreaths at its base obviously feel otherwise and will continue to do so until Russia officially acknowledges that the USSR illegally invaded and occupied the Baltics not once but twice, and that the USSR presence was an occupation for its duration. Forget about my lifetime, I suspect the sun will wink out before that happens.

“...it really is a grand Soviet-scale monstrosity.”

And so radically different from the now infamous Estonian “Bronze Soldier.”  But then, that monument was made by an Estonian sculptor, an Estonian architect, and modeled for by an Estonian red army veteran.  No weapons raised, no snarling soldiers attacking some woman.  Just a life-size soldier with head bowed, remembering “those fallen in WWII” (as the sign has read in Estonian and Russian since independence).

And now it’s in a military cemetery, where it belongs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tallinn_Bronze_Soldier_-_May_2006_-_029.jpg

ak