Very cool, yes. Some branch of the family lives across the road from me (the road isn’t near… I have my own little peninsula; no man is an island), but I never see them. Those old bicycles are beautiful.

/P

Australia is a not part of the EU, therefore I have very little knowledge of that organisation / system.
However the Fair Trade Organisation does ... it’s slowly sending Aussie producers down the tubes, hence “Buy Australian” is a big catchcry.
At the moment prices on nearly everything is ‘through the roof’.

Anyway, back to Latvia ... hyperthetical questions;
If Latvia did have the items for export:-
a. what would you buy?
b. what would your non-latvian friends buy?

The last figures I’ve read are something like $2m imports from Latvia into Australia. and $4m Australian exports to Latvia.
The imports are probably mainly tinned food (fish), exotic frozen foods, chocolates, black rye bread, and some beers.Books?

What Latvian products can be Value Added rather than just raw material being exported?

Marika of Go Blonde Parade fame sells (female only?) body beauty products ... do you have the opportunity to buy them?
There are music CD’s and DVD’s out there (online anyway) ... does anyone buy those items?

As for people going to live there, I would love to live there for the 3 months limit that the Oz govt allows for pensioners living overseas (not that I’m in that position yet, but getting closer every day).

Tourism is the only one big item that comes readily to my mind.
How to increase tourism?

Personally I don’t believe Latvia is a basketcase (or terminal, as someone said), as it was doing extremely well before the GFC.
It was doing something right.
Swedebank can’t be the only problem.
Whatever the problem is can be, in time, turned around, and the quicker the better.
Do we have to send money and food parcels again?

How to increase brand Latvia?

Personally I don’t believe Latvia is a basketcase (or terminal, as someone said), as it was doing extremely well before the GFC.
It was doing something right.

What, exactly? What makes you say it was doing extremely well? The double-digit GDP growth built on selling what remained of the Soviet infrastructure and then cheap credit?

It looks like a basket case. Upon closer inspection, even worse.  Whether it will stay one—I dunno; things strike me as pretty unpredictable. But it is a bit superstitious, methinks, to ignore reality—bleeding population like we do is obviously an indicator of there being something very, very wrong.

Visu gaišu,
/P

P.S. & sorry to be a typical Lettish cynical nihilist, but tourism? Where does, did, will the money go? Who gets it, how is it distributed, and what are the prospects? The owners of countless properties built up on EU credits that never really were meant for tourists—just a way to renovate one’s own estate? What will attract the tourist? When most of Europe is increasingly staying home? When there are far cheaper and warmer places to go to? When the prices are set so high, and the level of service woefully low? We have a really short season, and in my experience most entrepreneurs aren’t too interested in increasing the flow—if you talk to B&B owners around here, they have a regular clientele. And what are the effects? Latvia makes the most money off Russians, actually—they stay longer, spend more, etc. But another facet—take New Wave. Nobody really wants it here. Except those whose pockets it lines. May as well turn to Ushakov’s ideas of making Riga a kind of Russian Monte Carlo.

To added value—if you talk to people who actually do business in the fields that matter, it isn’t nearly as simple as it sounds. We’re not really interested in foreign investors in forestry, for example. Investors want to turn a profit—understandable, obviously. What does a plan actually offer—there’s the rub, usually. Some cellulose plant sucking in every tree, employing how many people at what level? Decent stuff often boils down to local money, and there ain’t much of that around. The idea that ‘all investment is good’ was stupid to begin with, and many here realize that by now—we don’t want some textile manufacturer coming in and competing with Lauma. It’s a difficult subject, with many intricacies, but my point is that real value isn’t plain as day.

Visu labu,
/P

Mari-

I don’t know where you get your info, but we export much more than chocolate and sprats. See this list here http://balticexport.com/?article=100-lielakie-nodrosina-pusi-visa-eksporta&lang=en.

We are in very bad shape, but many people are trying to do positive things. Check out TechHub as an example, the various business incubators and perhaps Ventspils high tech park.

It ain’ t just wood, smoked fish and tourism.

As for tourism, I visited Riga last sumer (yes peak period) and I have visited about every two year since 2004 and much more frequently before that.
First - I had never seen as many tourists as I did last summer. In talking to shop owners, etc, they said best year ever.
Second - Service is still somewhat spotty, but has improved. This is both hotels and restaurants.
Third - I used to stay lower end, but recent stays have been Hotel Bergs and Neiburgs. These high end hotels really do quite well. There might be small problems, which for the most part, can and should be overlooked.
Fourth - I don’t know how this will ever happen - but the people in the service industry could be friendlier. I was in the Neiburgs for 2 weeks last summer - they started to respond more personally after about one week. I know that, as an American, part of service is absolute professionalism when you want it & friendliness and a bit of chit-chat at other times.
Five - I rarely take overnight trips out of Riga. I have found what are decent places outside of Riga - but that’s all that they are. Until there is a higher standard outside of Riga, the travel will be limited. Places like Cesis are Okay - but if they improved, they would see some increase in people saying - go and spend a night at.
Latvia is not cheap relative to some other places, but cheap in relationship to others.
Riga is an exceptional city. From an architectural standpoint, I would start stressing the wooden buildings as something unique (in addition to the Jugenstihl(?) bldgs). This is a treasure. Where can one see what existed pre-multi-story bldgs.
The other cities and towns must create and be stronger in telling me why a tourist should take the time to visit - many will think Riga is enough. Cesis & Sigulda have done this.

I have returned with my mother on the last few trips. She has Alzheimer’s and special needs. This requires a different level of service and accommodations. (She needs a walk-in shower - hard to find.) We always visit the Hill of Crosses - it is fantastic for Christians & non Christians. (Day-trip)

+++My point Riga is getting better with respect to tourism. There are hardships, re weather, but the improvements are good - moving in the right direction.

I wish that the staff at hotels, etc. were paid better wages. That’s a whole different issue.

Vilis

I’m horribly pressed for time or would respond a lot more to a lot of what’s whizzing by in the forum of late, but just an offhand re:

I don’t know how this will ever happen - but the people in the service industry could be friendlier.

I love our gloom. One of the things I hate most about America is artificiality. I would rather not see McSmiles.

I am saying that in an exaggerated manner—I hate bad service, too—but I secretly love how Letts mock American ‘friendliness’. Especially American… I have seen people pantomime ‘hiiii how aaaare you’ many a time.

I don’t mind the gelid and real at all. When it’s about ripping people off—I do mind. But I would rather that a waitress be herself—competent, but doing her job. No fakery, no lišķība, and so on.

It does go back, in part, to Soviet life—if you are smiling, you either want something or are just plain stupid, or whacked.

But you’ll find something similar among other northern folk—we just don’t like overt friendliness.

Visu gaišu,
/P

Sveiki!

Pēteris wrote:

“One of the things I hate most about America is artificiality. I would rather not see McSmiles.”

You’ve been out of the US for too long.  Those ‘McSmiles’ don’t exist, at least not according to visitors from LV, who’ve visited northern & southern California with me. They’ve stayed at my house, as well as at a variety of motels and (occasionally) nice hotels.  Clerks in stores and hotels/motels are polite, but that’s it.  It shocked visitors from LV.  And this reaction was from the same people who like you *also* mocked: “American ‘friendliness’. Especially American… I have seen people pantomime ‘hiiii how aaaare you’ many a time.” 

I had the impression that they were surprised that their stereotypes (perhaps learned second hand in LV?) couldn’t be found in the US, which left them at a loss.

I think (but, may be mistaken) that what Vilis is talking about is the hotel clerk (as an example) who will take the time to give someone who isn’t a local that extra bit of attention that makes a trip a bit more special by recommending something that’s customized to a foreigner’s interests.  That’s what I’ve experienced that a concierge’s desk will do in even modest western European hotels outside of LV.  If that’s not occurring in LV’s hotels, then it’s a huge mistake.  (I know that it’s not occurring in some.  I’ve had American relatives - by marriage - speak of how wonderful it was to visit Lithuania and Estonia, but how weird it was to be in icy, stone-faced Latvia.)

Visu labu,

E.

To clarify - I prefer excellent and quiet service in a restaurant, i.e., not just competent placing the plate before you from any side b/c that’s all that is needed - the plate in front of the customer. I certainly don’t need to know about a waiter’s life nor do they care about mine.

The staff at a hotel or restaurant or hotel must make you feel like you are a welcome and a valued customer. If you want tourism as an industry in Riga, and especially outside of Riga, one needs to ensure that guests are welcome and will tell other people, I had a great time at X, Y or Z. Meals and hotels are about a lot more that food and a bed.

When you walk by the front desk of a smaller hotel on your way to breakfast - a Labrit is nice. It is a mere courtesy that is not difficult. Yes, silence and not looking up is easier (& sometimes people are busy with things), but ... you don’t want everything to be a simple business proposition - you have your bed for x nights - I’ll talk to you at check-out.

I have an art gallery - 60% is about the person liking the art and 40% is about the interaction with the potential buyer. It really is. And if you say - well that 40% may be artificial - don’t need it - well I know that people want to talk and be listened to. To me, it is ridiculous to discount that 40%.

I hate part of the artificial aspect of How are you? But all it requires is I’m fine and you? It is the briefest of interactions where the person greeting doesn’t really even want to know the answer. Are we to move to a simple “Rit” and drop the “Labrit”. How many people mean the “Lab” part of that. Boy - Latvians are just too sugary in the a.m.

Yes, I mean help given in a professional and courtesies manner - not - this is a bother to me, I was busy playing Solitaire and you are interrupting me.

If I am at a hotel for 2 weeks and I get to know some of the staff, I like to talk to them more personally to learn what there life might be like, etc. It doesn’t bother me if people are private.

There’s a lot of room between McSmiles and being dour. I think that if there were two equal bakeries down the street with one welcoming clerk and one dour clerk, even the most cynical person would likely choose to be treated in a welcoming way and one bakery would do better than the other.

Odd to have this discussion & I will mix it with another one.

If you want there to be better Latvian & ethnic minority relations in Latvia - it may be more likely to occur if people are courteous to each other and actually become a bit interested in each other. Because if you really don’t care and dour rules the day - good luck in created a feeling of mutual respect, let alone trust. If everyone keeps their head’s down…I don’t think there will ever be much progress.

Americans can be an obnoxious bunch - but my guess is that there is a lot of other stuff lurking behind this need to mock. (I remember that my union auto worker uncles ( and their wives and children) would mock professional classes and throughout that everybody that lived in a certain neighborhood were snobs. Boy did I get razzed when I came home to celebrate Christmas b/c I was an attorney in a NYC law firm. But, this really was about my uncles and not those they chose to deride. Guess what - of the five siblings - guess which kids didn’t graduate from college and are leading more difficult lives. Life is not all about education and who makes how much…I don’t believe that at all. But I would not recommend holding on to dour, the bitter , the resentment.)

V

I’m no fan of inanely grinning phoniness, but a perfunctory smile, or even just a canned, unsmiling courtesy greeting goes some way to letting a stranger feel welcome, whether you’re in the service industry or a government bureaucrat (I’ve been both).  Even in Berlin, the big brusque city of Ossis and Wessis and Turks and Poles and Russians, every business or official transaction had a “Guten Tag”, “Danke schön”, “Bitte schön”, and “Einen schönen Tag noch” (Danke, ebenfalls!) at the start and finish.

And I’ve known a few Latvians who immigrated after 1990, who really like American habits of friendliness toward strangers, whether driving on the open road or buying groceries. They find themselves really demoralized when they go back for a visit and encounter abusive drivers and store clerks who seem to blame the customers for the fact that they hate their jobs.

Peteris Kalniņs et al.,
“I’m no fan of inanely grinning phoniness, but a perfunctory smile, or even just a canned, unsmiling courtesy greeting goes some way to letting a stranger feel welcome, whether you’re in the service industry or a government bureaucrat (I’ve been both)”

Just curious, how do you personally address a waitress ?

Visu labu,

And I’ve known a few Latvians who immigrated after 1990, who really like American habits of friendliness toward strangers, whether driving on the open road or buying groceries. They find themselves really demoralized when they go back for a visit and encounter abusive drivers and store clerks who seem to blame the customers for the fact that they hate their jobs.

There was an article/editorial just a week or so ago in Lithuania’s primary daily written by a Lithuanian woman who spent a few years in the UK I believe. The piece asked the question “is a simple hello or thank you too much to ask ?”.

Service in the primary Lithuanian cities is what I’d call generally impersonal. The hotels have improved greatly over the years (recall the days when there was a cerfew) - but many restaurants and non tourist centric shops have not. Service isn’t cold, but it’s not attentive. In the smaller regional cities, I found service to be quite good. People are genuinely curious who this American is that can speak Lithuanian (Kedainiai, Panevezys, Ukmerge).

The Cabal gathered in Vilnius a few years back, stopping for a late dinner at Da Antonio on Vilniaus Gatve. We arrived at 9:45pm. They closed at 10pm. They stayed open for us, served what I thought was really excellent pizza, and were genuinely attentive until we left. 5 years prior ? Not a chance.

Thomas Schmidt
My quotation of exports/imports is a few years old .. and it only relates to Australia.
Thanks very much for your links,  to dig deeper.
Western Australia, at the turn of the century (1900’s) used Oregon pine for beams, and Baltic Pine for floor boards, skirtings and architraves.
I’ve never researched exactly what Baltic Pine means .. from Latvia or Estonia or Lithuania?
Wherever, it is still held in very high regard in the real estate world ... the white ants don’t go for it.

Tourism or anything
I’m not an economist.
there is a chain of effects in every situation ie no industry works in isolation ie there are numerous other industries involved to keep just one industry going, therefore employment is spread around.
What does a hotel require to function?—food supplies, laundry facilities, taxis, cleaners, bar personnel, etc etc. ... employment.
No doubt whoever put up the money to start the enterprise will get the biggest share, naturally.
Hopefully its not the russian mafia.

Is there a Latvian house swapping website anywhere?

Peter B.
I lived in USA, 1982->87. I wouldn’t live there again.

PC
“It looks like a basket case. Upon closer inspection, even worse.  Whether it will stay one—I dunno; things strike me as pretty unpredictable. But it is a bit superstitious, methinks, to ignore reality—bleeding population like we do is obviously an indicator of there being something very, very wrong.

Yes. I agree, something is very very wrong ... hence this topic ... what can we do to repair the situation?
Bleeding population = brain drain / labour drain.

Does this mean we throw our hands in the air, and just accept it? .. not do nothing?
Local money vs investment money.
Doesn’t every economy rely on exports? Ie supplying goods that someone else wants.
Local money only, implies the country is going to survive only on locally gained taxes. Can it?

Elizabete

I had a wonderful time with the hotel clerks in nearly every place I went. I did make sure I talked to them one to one.
I can’t even speak Latvian, but they knew enough english. I even got to go behind the reception desk and showed them stuff on the internet.
But I have to say, that nearly everyone in that position said they didn’t want to be there ... it wasn’t what they were trained to do.
Daugavpils was the certainly the exception .. a russian hotel, and a very surly receptionist .. we got the hell outa there the next day ..and spent a wonderful night up the road at Livani.
We almost always stayed at B&B’s .. and we were just outside of the peak season ie August/September.

For terrible customer service (& road driving).. try Westrern Australia.; but of course there are the exceptions.
I wish I had gone out my depth at the Riga 810 Lielknocert.
I can’t talk Latvian, so didn’t try any communication.
Yet I felt totally at home ... at last.

“Peter B.
I lived in USA, 1982->87. I wouldn’t live there again.”

I was in OZ 1962-64…..................moving to States
was a mistake.

Started out living with my dad in Adelaide.
Then spent some time in Woomera, saved
some cash and took off for Sydney….......

For the feminists out there, please treat this as a joke:

We (my sister and I; she was born in Cesis, I was born in a DP camp in the British zone in germany) turned up, around 5:00pm at a 15th Century? building / hotel outside of Madona. The place was locked.

After a while a teenager walked past. We bailed him up. It turned he was an american student doing a summer course here. He threw stones at a first floor window ... the guy inside stuck his head out of the window, The american latvian explained the situation etc etc .
An hour later, a very attractive latvian girl turned up ... and after 3 different attempts showed us our room.
Anyway ... to cut things short .. we were the only people in this ginormous mansion.
At the end of the evening I asked this receptionist lady whether we had to lock after she left (and went back to wherever she came from).
She said ‘No ... I’m staying the night’.

What else but, did my mind think?
Value added? ... added value?