I Tip My Hat !!!

I can’t but help to be impressed with the certainty that anyone alive today can authoritatively aver to what people were thinking and reacting to when they “self-identified” or self-hid 97 years ago. This is years before Mark Zuckerburg’s Facebook privacy violations could statistically track such things. We Letts are just downright amazing. Our infallible memories are indeed awe inspiring.

There obviously could be a lot more to this academic discussion….but snappy sounbites can be a bit sloopy, dontcha think?

I continue to be impressed.

Alberts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atis_Kronvalds

what kind of Latvia did Kronvaldu Atis live in?

How bizarre that my little aside became such a point of contention.  Aside from the internet sites in which Latvian government institutions cite statistics referring to Latvian territory being only about 60% ethnic Latvian by 1914, I’m looking at my copy of Arnolds Spekke’s “Latvijas Vēsture 1800-1914” (Uppsala: Daugava, 1958), where he wrote, “Laikam gan daudz tuvāk īstenībai ir M. Skujenieka vērtējums, ka ‘īsi pirms pasaules kara tikai mazliet vairāk par 60% no visiem Latvijas iedzīvotājiem bija latviešu’ ( p. 725).”

I can only hope that Bruno and Alberts will let these historians know what credulous chumps they have been for accepting these statistics as valid for the past 50+ years.

It is a valid argument though Peteri. The numbers cited are what they are but none of us can speak to the point of view of the census respondents at the time. What language was the census presented in for example ? Language meant alot. Pleasing the census takers maybe meant alot. It wasnt many years prior to 1914 that printing or even teaching Baltic languages was outlawed.

I can’t cite sources in opposition of those you present. Lithuanian experiences regarding ethnic composition was different - but I had this same argument regarding Lithuanian ethnic composition based on census many times. Citations from that time aren’t necessarily gospel - or even a reasonable snapshot. The question of identity in the 1905-1914 time period was complicated by the presence of Czarist overlords and later further complicated by the radical ethnocentrism that spawned the independence movements.

Also, to be fair, the Czarist census didn’t deal with ethnicity or nationality, but rather religious affiliation. Many Latvians were Russian Orthodox, too, thus skewing the figures.

Rubiks: otra valsts valoda Latvijā nav vajadzīga.

In the land of irony, the Moscow mole, the fighter against Latvia’s independence, the convicted traitor Alfred Petrovich Rubiks opposes Russian as the second official language.

Fair enough, the statistics cited for ethnic identity back then are squishy.  The point was that, from the 1880s to 1914, there was a good deal of in-migration from other parts of the empire, in numbers almost comparable to the Soviet period.  Plus, a fair number of Latvians took up the government’s offer of land in Siberia. And yet Latvian nationalists, jaunstrāvnieki, et al. didn’t raise this as an issue, even in 1905, when committees were posting their demands for greater autonomy.  Whereas since the 1950s and 60s, it’s been THE issue.

garais50 et al.,
“Tip My Hat !

I tip my hat to you too.

From personal knowledge:  My great grand parents on father side were teachers.  On the grave headstones all information is in german, even though they were not germans.

Visu labu,

Once again, events pull the rug out from under me just when I think I understand what’s going on:  Ušakovs is signing the petition, though he doesn’t actually advocate adding Russian as a second official language.  And Rubiks, who is—well, Rubiks—isn’t signing.

Raivis Dzintars: Ko nozīmē Ušakova paraksts?

Raivis Dzintars: Ko nozīmē Ušakova paraksts?

Using Google Chrome a lot lately but keep forgetting to disable automatic translation from foreign languages (which I routinely pull up).  The above started with “Steve Amber: etc.” and went rapidly downhill into gibberish (and not just because of the original content either).

Why anyone thinks Google translation works is beyond me.

ak

Parakstu vākšanas lieta: augstākās amatpersonas gatavo kopīgu paziņojumu iedzīvotājiem

Paldies, Aleks, for the link to MK (or at least Dombrovskis & Āboltiņa) being galvanized into action!

However, is there any reason to believe that the remaining 100 000+ vote-eligible citizens that need to endorse a referendum will participate in the signature-gathering initiative in the next two weeks?  Or are Dombrovskis & Āboltiņa merely participating in political theatre - which seems to be a Latvian speciality?

Visu labu,

E.

Btw: “/..../savukārt VL-TB/LNNK līderis Raivis Dzintars paziņojis, ka viņa partija gatavo grozījumus Satversmē, kas noteiktu, ka pants par latviešu kā vienīgo valsts valodu ir negrozāms.” 

That’s really an interesting precept.  The Satversme currently has provisions that allow changing literally *every* article in the constitution, making it a template for all future changes between the voters and their representatives.  It’s fascinating that the VL-young Turks believe they can *circumvent* the intentions of the fathers of Latvia’s founding document.

Read the latest LATVIANS ONLINE column by Uldis Ozoliņš: By supporting Russian language, Ušakovs shows he cannot be trusted

(November 17, 2011)

Aleksejs and other fans of Nil Usakov,
Can’t say I didn’t already tell you so but maybe you’ll be more receptive if Uldis Ozolins gives you the “shocking” news about “little Las Vegas” Nil Usakov.

“ts not about me, says Nyl, it’s about my pride.