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Latvian soldiers during WWII
 
Aussie2011
Posted: 10 September 2011 05:09 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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I recently came into possession of some military photographs of my grandfather who was killed fighting in Courland (Kurzemis?) during the last days of WWII.
I do not know a lot about Latvian history, and am somewhat puzzled regarding these photographs, and the story that they tell.
I am hoping that some of those with some knowledge of the history of the period may be able to provide some clarification.
Specifically, the black and white photographs are as follows:
1.  Dated March, 1939. My grandfather is depicted wearing a Latvian army sergeant’s dress uniform.
2.  Undated. Depicted wearing a standard Russian army style field uniform; but with Latvian lapel flashes.
3.  Undated. Depicted wearing what appears to be a Russian army Lieutenant’s dress uniform; a Russian officer’s hat with a Russian star on the front, and a Russian greatcoat with Latvian lapel flashes.
4.  Undated. Wearing a German SS field uniform; with a Captain’s lapel flash and clearly visible on his right arm is the Latvian shield.
So the questions I have are:
1.  How is it that my grandfather is wearing the uniforms of three different, and mutually hostile, armies?
2.  Regarding the apparently “Russian” uniforms: to my knowledge, Russians did not use lapel flashes. I am almost certain that they did not allow any kind of national identification; so how is it that there are Latvian lapel flashes on apparently Russian uniforms?
3.  Given the above: how did my grandfather end up fighting, and dying, in the German SS?

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peter B
Posted: 10 September 2011 06:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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in 1939 he must hve been in the Latvian military….....
the german togs were worn by the Latvian Legion under
the command of Waffen SS.
i’ll pass on the ruski stuff…....................

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pete

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Aleksejs
Posted: 10 September 2011 08:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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As to the russkie stuff, when the Red Army absorbed the Latvian army after the occupation, it formed the so-called Latvian division within the Red Army. I don’t know if they had used the lapels, but I suspect they did have some kind of identifying marks. My own great uncle was drafted into the Latvian army in 1939, but he died as a Red Army soldier near Moscow during WW2.

As to who he could have served in the Latvian Legion… I suspect when Nazi Germany occupied Latvia in 1941, he didn’t retreat with the Red Army, but stayed behind and was drafted into the Legion. So, technically, it is possible to have served in three armies during the war.

[ Edited: 10 September 2011 08:11 PM by Aleksejs]
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Kristine Kirsch Stivrins
Posted: 11 September 2011 04:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Aussie-

The Bookstore at Saulaine (http://www.campsaulaine.com) has Arturs Silgailis book LATVIAN LEGION- maps, photos, an exact translation of his Latvian version- very important book in understanding the period.

We can mail anywhere- all books are DONATED, all work is done by volunteers, all donations for books support Camp Saulaine.

Please contact me directly if you are interested.

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

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Kristine Kirsch Stivrins

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peter B
Posted: 11 September 2011 12:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Latvia

Theoretically, your grandfather could have worn several more
uniforms, depending on his age.

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pete

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Bruno the Lett
Posted: 11 September 2011 04:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Aussie2011 et al.,

“1.  How is it that my grandfather is wearing the uniforms of three different, and mutually hostile, armies?”

Are there other military people in the photos, or are they posed portrait photos ?

Visu labu,

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Bruno the Lett

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Aussie2011
Posted: 11 September 2011 07:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Thank you for the responses; I have followed the chain of links provided and have found the complexity of intermingling threads in Latvian history of the times to be quite astounding.

I am at the bottom of a very steep learning curve.

Given that Latvia historically seems to sit at the centre of numerous waves of conflicting historical events, it seems surprising that the Latvian people have managed to survive at all.  In reviewing this history, and the number of different groups that have occupied the area, the question that arises in my mind is: “what constitutes a Latvian? Is it someone who speaks the language, or is it someone who happens to live in the area at the time?”

These observations have some relevance to my original question: “Aleksejs” says that his great uncle died while serving in the Russian army near Moscow; he also says that my grandfather was possibly drafted into the Latvian legion as a consequence of him not retreating with the Russian army after the German invasion.

This suggests to me that within the Latvians themselves there was a difference in perception as to who the enemy was: the Russians or the Germans. Evidently, Aleksejs’ uncle chose the Russians;  my grandfather chose the Germans.

Putting together the pieces I have gathered over the past couple of days, the story would seem to be as follows: he started out in the Latvian army; when the Russians invaded Latvia, he was drafted into the Russian army as an NCO. When the Germans invaded Latvia, he took the opportunity to escape and joined the Germans.

Evidently he served with the Germans long enough to be promoted to Captain, and ultimately to his death in Courland. Would this suggest that he joined the Germans prior to the formation of the Latvian Legion?

Yesterday, I came across this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_Riflemen_Soviet_Divisions

It details the formation of ”Latvian” military units within the Russian forces. The thing that draws my attention is the numbers of men in each of the units quoted.

Given that the population of Latvia was around 1.5 million in 1940, I find it difficult to see how such large numbers of fighting men could have been drawn from such a small Latvian population.

However, Stalin did have a history of deception and duplicity. As an example, in his deception of the allied forces, Stalin re-designated numerous Russian divisions as the “Polish Army and Air Forces” and then claimed that they were native Polish forces re-occupying their own country.

Were these “Latvian” units really just re-branded Russians in another of Stalin’s subterfuges against the allies?

Bruno, regarding your question: the photo of my grandfather in Latvian dress uniform in 1939 is an official portrait photo; the others are informal group photos of military forces in the field.

Kristine:  thank you for the heads up on the book. I will work my way through the chain of links I have found, and as I work my way up the learning curve, I will contact you.

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Aleksejs
Posted: 11 September 2011 07:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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There were Latvian units that stayed in Russia and were not part of the Republic of Latvia before 1940. They were indeed ethnic Latvians. They essentially protected Lenin, for example. The old joke goes: what does it take to make a revolution in Russia? Jewish brains and Latvian muscles. Peteris Stucka headed a short-lived Latvian Socialist Republic. Many communist Latvians suffered through Stalin’s purges in 1930s and whose death we commemorate on the first Sunday of December. Some survived and ruled the Soviet Latvia during the occupation.

I don’t know the details of great-uncle’s death, but I would assume he was part of the so-called Latvian divisions. I suspect they were made up on conscripts from Latvia.

For such a small country, Latvia and Latvians do have a complex history. If you are ever in Riga, I suggest visting the Latvian war museum. I find it the least biased in re-telling the history of Latvia and Latvians unlike, say, the Occupation Museum.

[ Edited: 11 September 2011 07:40 PM by Aleksejs]
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courlander
Posted: 12 September 2011 07:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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The question of what happened from 1940-1945 to the Latvian Army can be answered: I will not even touch the two partisan wars going on at that time.
Oficiāli Latvijas armijas likvidācija notika it kā ar Latvijas PSR Tautas komisāru padomes lēmumu.
Latvijas PSR Tautas komisāru padomes 1940. g. 27. augusta lēmums
Ievērojot to, ka saskaņā ar Padomju Sociālistisko Republiku Savienības Konstitūcijas (Pamatlikuma) 14., 132. un 133. pantu PSRS aizsardzības organizācija un visu PSRS Bruņoto Spēku vadība piekrīt Padomju Sociālistisko Republiku Savienībai viņas augstāko varas orgānu un valsts pārvaldes orgānu personā un ka pēc PSRS Konstitūcijas un Latvijas PSR Konstitūcijas vispārējā karaklausība ir likums un tēvijas aizsardzība ir katra PSRS pilsoņa svēts pienākums,
Latvijas PSR Tautas Komisāru Padome nolemj:
1. Pārveidot Latvijas Tautas Armiju par Sarkanās Armijas strēlnieku teritoriālu korpusu, nododot viņu Baltijas atsevišķā kara apgabala karaspēka sastāvā.
2. Nodot Latvijas Tautas Armijas jūras flotes spēkus, to skaitā krasta artilēriju un hidroaviāciju, Strādnieku-Zemnieku Jūras flotes sastāvā.
3. Reorganizēt Latvijas Tautas Armijas pastāvošās kara mācības iestādes par normālu Sarkanās Armijas kājnieku skolu.
4. Lai izvestu karaklausībai padoto audzināšanu un atrisinātu jautājumu par Latvijas Padomju Sociālistiskās Republikas pilsoņu obligāta karadienesta izpildīšanu, pārveidot vietējās kara pārvaldes organus par kara komisariātiem, pakļaujot tos Baltijas atsevišķajam kara apgabalam.
5. Piepaturēt Strēlnieku korpusā līdzšinējo Latvijas Tautas Armijas tērpu, noņemot uzplečus un ievedot Sarkanās Armijas komandējošā sastāva atšķirības zīmes.
6. Likt visa korpusa, kara skolas un jūras spēku personālajam sastāvam divu mēnešu laikā nodot Kara Zvērestu saskaņā ar Padomju Sociālistisko Republiku Savienības Augstākās Padomes 1939. g. 3. janvāra Rīkojumu.
7. Visu Latvijas PSRS bijušās Kara ministrijas, Latvijas Tautas Armijas un viņas apkalpojošo iestāžu apbruņojumu un mantu, ēkas, būves u.t.t., kā arī lietas un arhīvus, nodot Baltijas atsevišķajam kara apgabalam.
Visu jūras spēku, krasta aizsardzības un hidroaviācijas apbruņojumu, mantu, ēkas un būves dodot Sarkanā Karoga Baltijas Flotei. Šis lēmums stājas spēkā tā publicēšanas dienā.
Latvijas PSRS Tautas Komisāru Padomes
priekšsēdētājs V. Lācis.
On September 27th the Latvian Army became the “24. TERITORIĀLAIS STRĒLNIEKU KORPUSS”
  When the war started the Russians with their retreat forced many of the Latvians to go with them at gunpoint. Many deserted when the opportunity arose but if caught were shot.
  This eventually became part of the 308 Latviešu Strēlnieku Divīzia which helped defend Moscow. A good description about this time can be read in volume 1 “Latviešu Karavīrs Otra Pasaules Kara Laikā”
  The question of “How Latvian was this division?” was answered by the Latvian Historian Heinrihs Strods in his book “PSR Kaujinieki Latviā (1941-1945)” ISBN 9984-643-78-6. On page 147 he breaks it down on the 10th of July 1944 as “Krievi 3495 or 47.75%: Ukraiņi, 166 or 2.2%: Baltkrievi 67 or .9%: Ebreji, 569 or 7.8%: Tatāri, 136 or1.85%: Latvieši 2656 or 36.3%: Citas Tautības, 230 or 3.2%: this totals to 7319 soldiers.
  The 308 was at the beginning at Kurzemes Cietosni but when the Latvians found out they were shooting Latvians many refused so the unit was transfered to the south. I have yet to find any references of them having combat with units of the 15th Latvian Legion in Germany
All together 100,000+ soldiers fought for Germany and about 60,000+ fought for the Russians.
I suggest one visit both museums for they are about two different things, war and occupation.

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LigitaR
Posted: 12 September 2011 11:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Sveiks Aussie!  And welcome to LOL!

Here’s a great site I found - everything about WWII - I asked questions of my uncle, who died defending Hitler in Berlin.

http://forum.axishistory.com/

They are very friendly people on there - and will be glad to help you!  Good Luck.

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courlander
Posted: 12 September 2011 12:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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If you can read Latvian and have not done so, I suggest reading the book “Mums Jāpārnāk… Latviešu Karavīri-pēdējie Berlīnes aizstāvji” by Aivars Pētersons 2003, ISBN 9984-10-162-2.
It will tell you all you need to know about how the Latvians defended and helped sign off the surrender of Berlin to the Russian General Bērzariņš (a Latvian).

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Aussie2011
Posted: 12 September 2011 04:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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The responses and links provided so far have been very informative; thank you.

This period of history was very traumatic to my grandmother, and right up to the time she died she rarely spoke of it. The little I learned from her came from fragmentary comments she would occasionally make in the context of other conversations; after which she would become very emotional and withdrawn. Obviously, I did not pursue the details at the time.

It was only when, after her death, I found her shoebox of photographs that I realised that there is big story to be told here.

While I speak Latvian functionally well, my reading and writing ability is very poor. Never the less, what I can understand of your transcription of the Latvian surrender protocols certainly makes riveting reading.

I think I have stitched together a credible narrative and timeline that traces the history directly relevant to my grandfather.

I can certainly see the logic and motivation that drove his life at the time.

Specifically, it looks like the events as they relate to my grandfather are:
1.  1939: my grandfather was an NCO in the Latvian army.
2.  September 27, 1940:
  a.  The Latvian army was incorporated into the Russian army
  b.  My grandfather was subsumed into the Russian army, retaining his Latvian rank; then later promoted to Lieutenant.
3.  July 1941:
  a.  The Germans completed their occupation of Latvia
  b.  My grandfather joined the German forces.
  c.  He was first wounded somewhere near Smolensk, and repatriated to Germany.
  d.  Upon recovery, he was posted back to “The Russian Front”.
4.  January 1943:
  a.  The Latvian Legion was officially formed
  b.  My grandfather was posted to the Latvian Legion (as a Captain?)
5.  1945: he was killed in Courland

I realise that this is a highly speculative construction I have stitched together from my reading over the past couple of days. Does it sound credible to others?

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courlander
Posted: 12 September 2011 07:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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I followed your trace and I can can occur.
The question today is “how did you and your family survive the Holocaust of the Russians and Germans survive?“i

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Aussie2011
Posted: 12 September 2011 09:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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The answer to your question is probably very familiar story to all Latvians.

As I said earlier, this was a very painful and emotional subject for my grandmother, so the little I know is very fragmentary and incomplete, and is the product of my piecing bits and pieces together over the years.

It is only due to the fact that I found her box of secret photographs that I am now asking the questions I didn’t have the courage to ask her when she was alive.

I have managed to reconstruct the very incomplete, and not necessarily historically accurate, story as follows:

My grandfather was a professional soldier in the Latvian army. Apparently, after their occupation, the Russians began a process of deportations and executions of Latvian military personnel.

My grandfather saw this as a bad sign, and got a message to my grandmother to take their son and run to Germany. Since he, and the rest of the Latvians, was confined to barracks under guard, he was unable to go with her.

Shortly after she fled for Germany, her parents and some other of her relatives were arrested by the Russians and shipped off to Siberia; never to be seen again.

She, together with her close childhood friend, fled on foot for Germany. On the way, they encountered another group of refugees and they all proceeded together. Shortly after, the group was attacked by Russian soldiers and machine gunned. Seemed all except my grandmother and my father were killed.

My grandmother and father proceeded alone, and she arrived in Germany as a destitute, traumatised single mother 23 years of age.

I don’t know what she did in order to survive for the duration of the war, but at one stage she worked in a military hospital; somehow she ended up in Dresden just in time for the firebombing. Subsequently, for her entire life whenever she saw fire she would go into a blind panic.

During the war, she somehow managed to be aware of my grandfathers’ activities; although, after fleeing Latvia, she never saw him again.

As the war ended she again fled from the Russians and somehow ended up in Italy. From there she somehow ended up in Australia.

There is a heartbreaking end to this story:

Just before she died, my grandmother moved into an old people’s home here in Australia. One day, one of the nurses came up to her and asked her: “You are Latvian, aren’t you?”  “Yes, I am”. “Oh good, we have just had another Latvian lady move in. Would you like to meet her?” “Sure, that would be nice.”

A couple of days later, she is sitting in the dining room: “Hello, this is the Latvian lady I was telling you about.” “Hello…… OH MY GOD!!!”

Turns out that the new Latvian lady was her childhood friend who she had believed to have been killed by the Russians during their escape from Latvia. They had apparently both been living in Australia since the end of the war, about 200Km apart, completely unaware of each other.

They both died within weeks of each other.

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londonlat
Posted: 14 September 2011 09:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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Your grandfather’s story, in some way, mirrors my father’s experiences. He was also a captain (of artillery) and took part in the defence of Kurzeme/Courland. Of the 2 Latvian legions, the 19th was the one that defended Kurzeme alongside a large contingent of the German Wehrmacht. They managed to hold their position until the war’s end but suffered heavy losses. My father was concussed and repatriated to Germany but, possibly because the end of the war was nearing, was not posted back to the front line. He did manage to acquire an Iron Cross for taking out 10 Soviet tanks, though.I don’t know about his other experiences during the war and, as in your case it is now too late. The other Latvian legion, the 15th, was withdrawn from the front line and was used partly to defend Berlin eventually, I believe. However, a large part of it was led to relative safety in the Western zone thanks to Colonel Janums.
The fact that Latvians served in 3 different armies has been covered in several TV programs that I have seen. It was possible for a Latvian to be illegally conscripted, against the Geneva convention, into both the Soviet army and the German controlled Latvian legions at different times. I’m sure there may have been such an illustration in the documentary film Soviet Story.
I was also not surprised by your description of the Soviets murdering refugees. It wasn’t just Kononov murdering pregnant women. Gunther Grass covers the sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff, packed full of refugees, in his book Crabwalk.
Your grandmother’s story roughly mirrors my mother’s story. She too, along with her sisters, headed for Dresden and were there during the period that it was fire-bombed. She was fortunately just outside whilst here sisters were inside but miraculously survived. They managed to meet up again using the makeshift noticeboards that were set up by people looking for their loved ones. I’m sure Dresden was overflowing with refugees at the time, many from the Baltic States. Unfortunately, the perpetrator of the Dresden outrage, the war criminal ‘Bomber’ Harris is having a statue erected in London. Because of the controversy, it has taken a long time but unfortunately looks as if it is going ahead.

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Aussie2011
Posted: 15 September 2011 12:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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In reading the details of the history of the war period in Latvia, I think I have constructed a plausible scenario around my grandfather being wounded near Smolensk.

I imagine that he would have heard about the machine gunning of refugees by the Russians. When he lost contact with his wife and child, it would have been logical for him to assume that they had been amongst the dead.

Having been dragooned into the Russian army, with no feasible means of escape, he would have been enraged, but biding his time.

When the Germans invaded Latvia, he would have taken the first opportunity to defect to the Germans. Since he was later wounded near Smolensk, this suggests to me that he was inducted into a main force German unit, as opposed to a national auxiliary unit.

I would imagine his rage and desire for revenge would have been a powerful driving motivation in his fight against the Russians; it would have been a very personal war.

Having experienced his circumstances, I wonder how any other normal person would have behaved?  Would he have viewed every Russian soldier as the possible murderer of his wife and child? How many of us would have been diligent in observing the details of the Geneva Convention when faced with similar circumstances?

Given the chaos of wartime Germany, and her specific circumstances, I find it difficult to imagine how my grandmother would have been able to keep track of my grandfather’s wartime ordeal; particularly since she never saw him again after fleeing Latvia.

How would they have known if each other were alive? How would it have been physically possible for them to communicate? Logically, I think he must have endured the war believing she was dead; she must have learned of his fate from other people sometime after the war. Perhaps along her long path to Australia, she encountered members of his service unit?

How I regret not talking about these things with my grandmother; she had such a story to tell. It is a story the whole world should know. But, on the other hand, how could I ask her to rub salt into her own raw wounds by talking about it?

I am in awe of the fact that she, and her son, survived the war in Germany. It is difficult enough for a young girl with a child to survive in our current society with all its institutional and social support systems; how did she manage through four years of war in a foreign country, all alone?

After my mother was re-united with her childhood friend in Australia, for the few months that they were together before they both died, they were inseparable.

I still have a very clear vision of them both sitting on the patio, not speaking, holding hands. Heartbreaking!

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