Welcome Guest Login Register Member List
ExpressionEngine Forums
Advanced Search
Username: Password:
Remember Me? forgot password?
You are here: Forum Home  >  General  >  Open Forum  >  Thread
   
 
March 16,2010
 
Arija
Posted: 18 March 2010 08:35 AM   [ Ignore ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  794
Joined  2003-07-04

My friend who works in Riga sent me a short email in response to my questions about the March 16 event.  I was curious if the legionnaires went ahead with their wreath laying at the base of the Freedom Monument. She said they did and there was no broohaha because the place was full of policemen. More than she has seen in one place to date. There were small groups of people gathered as spectators but none of the circus that took place last year. For one thing the square was cordonned off and there was a metal grate around the monument which to her looked like a broken down fence. She said the whole thing was very pathetic. 
Perhaps someone else who was there can offer a more detailed commentary.

Signature 

Arija

Profile
 
peter B
Posted: 18 March 2010 08:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1633
Joined  2003-08-29

according to Delfi, 5 or 6 rowdies got taken away and released fairly soon.

Effie wasn’t happy. Couldn’t find any war criminals.
He needs to go to Moscow first….......................

Šī lapa izdrukāta no DELFI portāla
Adrese http://www.delfi.lv/archive/index.php?id=30679211


Zurofs: nacisma un komunisma noziegumi atšķiras kā āboli un apelsīni
http://www.DELFI.lv
18. marts 2010 10:13 Padalies

Padalies ar ziņu
Drukāt Ziņot redaktoram Komentāri (501) Nacisma un komunisma noziegumi ir atšķirīgi, tāpat kā āboli atšķiras no apelsīniem, intervijā “Latvijas Avīzei” paudis Simona Vīzentāla centra direktors Efraims Zurofs, kurš šajās dienās uzturējās Latvijā, piedalījās holokausta izpētes konferencē un nosodīja 16. marta leģionāru gājienu.


“Tos nevar pielīdzināt,” par divu režīmu noziegumiem sacījis Zurofs. Viņš norādījis: “Komunisma noziegumi ir drausmīgi, no komunistiskā režīma cieta miljoniem iedzīvotāju, un viņi pelnījuši līdzjūtību un šo noziegumu atzīšanu. Bet tas nenozīmē, ka pret viņiem īstenots holokausts. Daudzu iemeslu dēļ holokausts ir kaut kas pilnīgi atšķirīgs!”

“To sakot, nevēlos mazināt komunistiskā režīma noziegumu svarīgumu vai nerespektēt upuru ciešanas, un visi centieni nosodīt komunistiskā režīma noziegumus pelna cieņu,” sacījis Zurofs. Viņš arī paudis neizpratni, norādot: “Tomēr es nesaprotu, kāpēc Latvijā nav savu Simonu Vīzentālu un Efraimu Zurofu, kas censtos atrast komunisma noziegumos vainīgos un saukt pie atbildības”.

“Konferencē no ebreju organizāciju puses bija ārkārtīgi noraidoša attieksme pret ES Parlamenta iniciatīvu pielīdzināt nacisma un komunistiskā režīma noziegumus. Tika dalītas lapiņas, kur apgalvots, ka Prāgas deklarācija, kas arī to pieprasīja, esot “Eiropā jaunā antisemītiskā inde,” klāstījis Zurofs.

Zurofs norāda, ka 2008.gada jūnijā starptautiskā konferencē Čehijā pieņemtā Prāgas deklarācija, kas cita starpā aicina pielīdzināt nacisma un komunisma noziegumus, ir “ļoti problemātisks, ļoti bīstams dokuments”. “Mēs esam iesaistījušies procesā, kura mērķi ir panākt, lai līdzīgas rekomendācijas netiktu pieņemtas,” norādījis Zurofs.

Zurofs arī asi kritizējis Latvijas valsts veikumu holokausta nozieguma izmeklēšanā, norādot, ka [par noziegumiem pret cilvēci aizdomās turētie Konrāds] Kalējs un [Kārlis] Ozols ir ellē un ik minūti var pateikties par vilcināšanos visām atbildīgajām instancēm”. Zurofs uzskata, ka cēlonis, kāpēc Ozols netika tiesāts, ir tas, ka valsts, kurā viņš dzīvoja – Austrālija –, paveikusi milzīgu darbu, bet valstis, kurās viņš veicis noziegumus – Latvija un Baltkrievija –, neizdarīja to, ko tām vajadzēja izdarīt. “Un no tā labumu guva masu slepkava – piedodiet man – kuces dēls Kārlis Ozols!” sašutumu paudis Zurofs.

Viņš arī stāstījis, ka Simona Vīzentāla centra 2002. gadā Latvijā sāktajā akcijā “Pēdējā iespēja”, kurā solīta 10 000 ASV dolāru atlīdzība par informāciju, kas palīdzētu pie atbildības saukt holokausta noziegumos vainīgos, “uzzinājām 46 aizdomās turamo vārdus, un informācija par 13 personām tika iesniegta prokuratūrā”. “Bet, tā kā neviena persona netika tiesāta, Latvijā neviens iedzīvotājs, kurš sniedza informāciju, nesaņēma izsludināto atlīdzību,” informējis Zurofs.

Skaidrojot savu līdzdalību protesta akcijā pret 16.marta leģionāru piemiņas gājienu, Zurofs sacījis, ka “mana pretestība šim gājienam balstīta uz faktu, ka šie cilvēki ir cīnījušies par nacistiskās Vācijas uzvaru”. “Nesaku, ka savulaik situācija Latvijā bija vienkārša vai ka cilvēkiem nebija jāizdara grūta izvēle. Bet nesauciet par varoņiem tos, kas izdarījuši nepareizu izvēli!” uzsvēris Vīzentāla centra direktors.

Viņš norādījis, ka karavīri, kas cīnījušies sabiedroto pusē, arī padomju armijā “cīnījās pret fašismu, kas sakāva visļaunāko režīmu cilvēces vēsturē, un par to viņiem pienākas atzinība”.

http://www.DELFI.lv 

Šis raksts ir izdrukāts no DELFI
Adrese http://www.delfi.ee/archive/article.php?id=19097422

Signature 

pete

Profile
 
Aleksejs
Posted: 18 March 2010 09:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1141
Joined  2003-06-28

In short: no significant tension of the past years. Heavy snow fell in Riga early that morning. The square around the Freedom Monument was cordoned off by fence, snowdrifts, and two line of the municipal police. People peacefully walked from the Dome Cathedral to the Freedom Monument. A group of young Russian men gathered near the Laima clock with signs condemning the march. They were maybe 20 years old. They shouted “Shame! Shame!” and “No to fascism.” But they did not appear hostile, or aggressive unlike in previous years. In fact, several old and young men, Russians and Latvians, were having a debate on history as they watched a long string of people move toward the Freedom Monument. I remember a young Russian man saying to an old Latvian man, “I am not protesting against Latvia. I’m protesting against fascism. Did my grandfather die in the war for this?” To which the old man responded: “I was 14 years old when I was sent to the front? Who had a choice!” I also remember an old Latvian woman running around the young Russian guys with the St. George’s ribbons, repeating the same thing over and over, “But you lost in the Olympic games, but you lost in the Olympic games.”

I also was inside the Dome Cathedral for the commemorative sermon. As I have told someone, it felt as if I stepped into the 19th century church where the soldiers were about to take up their Bibles and fight a good fight. The church - instead of preaching peace - preached war. The holy war, if you like.

Signature 

http://www.allaboutlatvia.com
Skype: aleks-tapinsh

Profile
 
Ivars Graudins
Posted: 18 March 2010 09:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  537
Joined  2003-08-28

Ārija ~ here’s a chronicle of the Legionnaire March 16 event from 2001 – 2010.

http://www.diena.lv/lat/tautas_balss/blog/janis-sils/hronika-cina-par-legiona-atceri-2001-2010

Cheers, Ivars

Profile
 
Talisman Browns
Posted: 18 March 2010 01:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
Jr. Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  48
Joined  2009-03-08

Canadian national Broadcaster CBC- on a radio programme said something to the point of:
neo-nazis and russian protesters trying to reopen the wounds of the second world war.
i have written to them to get a podcast of the item and requested disclosure of their sources.
nevertheless the same CBC did a hacket job of a documentary on the former canadian professor/ ex-president of Latvia.
the reply then was - sensationalism sells
i could delve deeper into the producers names and backrounds - if anyone is interested.
but then i may be accused of some form of hate speech…

the concern is that this doesn’t seem to bother the Latvians who represent their countrymen at home or abroad…
its only a reputation?

Profile
 
Aleksejs
Posted: 18 March 2010 01:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1141
Joined  2003-06-28

I don’t mean any disrespect, but the controversy around March 16 has everything to do with World War II. Neo-nazi label was wrong to use. I said earlier, I found this BBC audio report more balanced than I expected.  http://www.theworld.org/2010/03/16/latvian-nazi-unit-commemorated/

Signature 

http://www.allaboutlatvia.com
Skype: aleks-tapinsh

Profile
 
Talisman Browns
Posted: 18 March 2010 02:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
Jr. Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  48
Joined  2009-03-08

thank you!
i will post it accordingly.
LV taxpayer TB

Profile
 
Arija
Posted: 18 March 2010 05:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  794
Joined  2003-07-04

Thank you, Ivar, for the chronicle of the 3/16 processions to the Freedom Monument. I had no idea political parties or groups like Daugavas Vanagi helped organize them.  Silly me, I thought the old vets just got together themselves to lay a wreath at the foot of Milda. Now it looks like they are being used and paraded for the benefit of the groups organizing these processions.
Thank you Aleks for The World article. I agree with you that it is a good assessment of these events. The interview does pick up on the groups organizing the processions as having their own agenda and use patriotism as a tool for gaining public support.  I know when I talked to my relatives and friends in LV last summer, they would prefer that these marches would just go away and almost dreaded the March date to arrive.

Signature 

Arija

Profile
 
spectator
Posted: 18 March 2010 05:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  860
Joined  2003-02-14

Are skeletons better hidden in closets?  Everyone has them.  For example, when Palestine was British occupied,Israeli freedom fighters dynamited the King David Hotel while guests were still inside,

Signature 

Spectator

Profile
 
Ojars Kalnins
Posted: 19 March 2010 02:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  154
Joined  2003-02-17

To Talisman Browns

Of course lies, errors and distortions bother Latvians. But before you take action on an article or report, you need to determine: 1) How respectable is the media and journalist? 2) How broad is the audience of the media? 3) Does this media routinely distort and misrepresent facts? 4) Do they have a policy of printing comments? 5) Do they have a history of correcting errors? 6) How much time, effort and resources need to be invested in responding to such an incident, and what are the odds that it will have the desired effect?

If the NY Times runs an objectionable piece it is definitely worth the effort to respond. If the Socialist Red Star Mini Militia of Outer Kansas runs a stupid piece in their website, I think it can be ignored.

While Canadian radio sounds respectable, a comment like ‘sensationalism sells’ is not. Seems to me that Canadian listeners should protest their lack of professionalism.

Latvia is a small country with limited resources and needs to deploy them wisely and effectively. But we appreciate all the help we can get.

Profile
 
peter B
Posted: 19 March 2010 02:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1633
Joined  2003-08-29

Seems to me that the main source of disinformation about the Legion
is none other than Effi Zuroff.
Start with him Mr. PR man.

Signature 

pete

Profile
 
Ojars Kalnins
Posted: 19 March 2010 03:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  154
Joined  2003-02-17

To Peter B

Wouldn’t that be like trying to convince Glenn Beck that Barack Obama is a great president?

Profile
 
Irena
Posted: 20 March 2010 07:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1288
Joined  2003-02-05

Arija, thanks for posting!  It’s always good to hear from someone who was actually there at that time, other than mostly relying on media coverage.  I pretty much agree with what you’ve said, though I still find myself grappling with the subject anew each year.

Irena

Profile
 
   
 
 
‹‹ Old to soon...smart to late      Karli Ose ››

Powered By ExpressionEngine
Template Design By Sonnenvogel.com
Select a theme:

ExpressionEngine Discussion Forum - Version 2.1.2 (20100415)
Script Executed in 0.2391 seconds

Atom Feed
RSS 2.0