NATO for defense and EU for borders?

Miku, when did you ever hear “EU for borders”? What does that even mean? The main way borders are affected are by Schengen—they vanish in a practical sense, as impediments to movement. Galu galā, that’s one of two palpable things most people appreciate the EU for—being able to leave (to travel without visas, and to emigrate) and getting subsidies. Ask about anything else and you’re likely to draw a blank stare.

Oh, or—the EU closed our sugar factories, which isn’t even true.

Visu gaišu,
/P

Spent too much time in Chicago?

Mikus E.

PC, let’s from now on, never try to persuade any LOL readers simply upon the poster’s “residence”.
So if we would only agree that Latvija should exist and should continue to exist, then there should not be many future balant “geographical” conflicts.

Mikus E.

Wahabist et al.,

“I could, but I’m not sure which end of any given horse will better remind me of your point of view.”

Why don’t you dig around the horse manure in Lithuania and come up with what is happening “leišu zemē”.

Visu labu,

[re: an Anita’s reference done via post #42]

per Anita’s:

“it was that the likelihood of terrorism went up. Not that it was to be expected, or that it would happen”

Anita though now seems very relieved that she can indeed perhaps via de facto, re-state/re-phrase her original wording by ...?

I’m glad Vidas condensed my viewpoint. And he used words and a minimum of pathos. Can be done.

But here are though some other like examples of “errors” in reasoning?:

In January (... and I assume of this very same year), the Berkeley (—-Calif.) School Board began consideration of a near-unanimous recommendation of Berkeley High School’s Governance Council to eliminate science labs from its curriculum, reasoning that the classes mostly serve white students, leaving less money for programs for under-performing minorities.—-Five science teachers will be dismissed.

Or…
Scottish sculptor Kevin Harman was fined the equivalent of $325 in November for vandalizing the Collective Gallery in Edinburgh by smashing a metal scaffolding pole through a gallery window. Harmon insisted that the incidence was actually “art”, in that it was part of video for a project at Edinburgh College of Art.
Harmon was later quoted to say that he was less distressed by the fine than by the gallery insulting his art by “successfully” calling it vandalism.

Mikus E.

P.S. Can they all then later, “and ...easily as well“, distract from their original bad wording/actions?

Ah!  Another News of the Weird reader!

http://www.newsoftheweird.com/archive/index.html

See, Miku, we have all sorts of common ground!  I too read News of the Weird, I too can speak Jabberwock (granted not as fluently)... I’m sure there’s more.

Pēteŗi Cedŗiņ,

NATO for defense and EU for borders?
Miku, when did you ever hear “EU for borders”? What does that even mean? The main way borders are affected are by Schengen—they vanish in a practical sense, as impediments to movement. Galu galā, that’s one of two palpable things most people appreciate the EU for—being able to leave (to travel without visas, and to emigrate) and getting subsidies. Ask about anything else and you’re likely to draw a blank stare.
Oh, or—the EU closed our sugar factories, which isn’t even true.
Visu gaišu,
/P

Oh, Peteŗ,
I don’t think you know what are you talking about the sugar factories in Latvija. Also many other wild statements you dish out. I believe what my cousin tells me in her letters.
Here is a short excerpt from her last letter:
 
.........bet nu jau nava vairs kaimiņu, vecie aiziet aizsaulē, jaunie prom uz ārzemēm, tik nosaka te jau nav darba un prom ir brauc gan uz Īriju, gan uz Angliju. Sapelna naudiņu un brauc atpakaļ, bet ir arī tādi kas atpakaļ nebrauc. Nesen noklausījos pa radio – pārdota cukura fabrika, Gulbenē cepa maizīti, tā arī pārdota. Tur strādāja piecdesmit cilvēki, kur tie lai ņem darbu. Nekad neaizmirst daudzināt Latvija ir brīva valsts, pareiz vien ir brīva no visa; no darba , no naudas, no visa…....

Labvakar, Tālivaldi!

What does your cousin know about sugar factories? First of all, it’s not a matter of their being sold. It’s a matter of reforms following the ending of massive EU subsidies for sugar, which caused the EU to come into conflict with the WTO. The EU tried to keep subsidizing sugar. It lost to the WTO in court.

Does your cousin know more than the director of the Jelgava sugar factory?

Tad jūs nepiekrītat izskanējušai frāzei par to, ka jau līdz ar iestāšanos Eiropas Savienībā bija skaidrs, ka Latvijā cukura rūpniecību likvidēs?

Nu es gan neteiktu, ka tas atbilst patiesībai – brīdī, kad stājāmies ES, nekas vēl nebija skaidrs: nedz par subsīdijām, nedz cukuriem. Daudz lielāka loma te bija jau visam iepriekšminētajam. Pretējā gadījumā – kāpēc tad lietuviešiem izdevās saglabāt savu cukura rūpniecību? Ziniet, es pabiju viņu fabrikās pirms septiņiem astoņiem gadiem, un tās bija krietni atpalikušākas par mūsējo. 

«Cukurfabrika varēja izdzīvot, bet…»

Another view, from the EC representative in Latvia, can be found here. An excerpt:

Šāds uzskats man ļauj uzdot pretjautājumu – vai Latvija ir gatava būt ES? Vai valsts pārvaldes kvalitāte ir tāda, kas ļauj īstenot gudru un tālredzīgu politiku? Ir svarīgi skaidri cilvēkiem pateikt, kas ir šīs valsts mērķi, kuras ir prioritātes. Arī cukura ražošana varēja būt prioritāte. Ja tā būtu bijis, strādā daudzi valsts atbalsta mehānismi, lai nozari saglabātu kā perspektīvu ar nākotni.

Latvia, had it made the sugar industry a priority, could have kept at least one sugar factory running. Latvia did not. It’s not the EU’s fault in any sense.

The economy is terrible, true, and Latvia has been badly managed. I don’t think one gets out of that by demonizing the EU. All that does is feed the victim complex (and, incidentally, such disinformation is used by the pro-Russian left as much as it is by the fanatical Latvian right).

I definitely agree that we need radical changes—but what are your cousin’s constructive proposals? Leaving the EU? Building the Great Wall?

It helps, too, if the arguments people make about why and how things are bad—and I agree that they’re bad, very bad, very, very bad—are based on reality. Otherwise it’s just more of Jaņdžs talking about the forests being chopped down and being unable to debate people who actually bring up facts.

Vysu lobu,
/P

Things are looking up…..................

Šī lapa izdrukāta no DELFI portāla
Adrese http://www.delfi.lv/archive/index.php?id=29593813

Pauž apņēmību Iecavā būvēt cukurfabriku
Bauskas Dzīve
30. janvāris 2010 12:22 Padalies

Padalies ar ziņu
Drukāt Ziņot redaktoram Komentāri (30) Grupa lauksaimnieku un personas, kuras interesē cukura nozares atjaunošana, 29. janvārī Iecavā no dažādiem aspektiem sprieda par biedrības “Par Latvijas cukurrūpniecības saglabāšanu” iniciatīvu būvēt jaunu pārstrādes uzņēmumu.

Biedrības valdes loceklis Georgs Bagātais informēja, ka šis uzņēmums varētu būt trešais lielākais Eiropā. Biznesa plāns esot izstrādāts, un par biedrības ieceri 1. februārī paredzētas sarunas ar Ministru prezidentu Valdi Dombrovski.

Pēc biedrības aplēsēm fabrikas celtniecība izmaksātu 100 miljonu latu, un šis ieguldījums atmaksātos 15 gados. Peļņu gūtu gan cukurbiešu audzētāji, gan pārstrādātāji. Iecavas novada lauku attīstības speciālists Stepans Drozdovs sacīja, ka zeme, uz kuras paredzēta būvniecība, pieder privātpersonām, taču saskaņā ar novada attīstības plānojumu, šo vietu var izmantot rūpnieciska rakstura būvēm.

Zemnieki, vērtējot pašlaik nosauktos skaitļus, bija piesardzīgi, jo, lai atsāktu cukurbiešu audzēšanu, vajadzīgi prāvi ieguldījumi tehniskajam nodrošinājumam. Izskanēja doma, ka ir nepieciešama lauksaimnieku aptauja, lai apzinātu, cik daudz saimnieku apņemtos audzēt cukurbietes.

Eiropas Parlamenta deputāts Alfrēds Rubiks, piedaloties sanāksmē, pauda gandarījumu, ka par cukura nozari ir tāda interese un ka aktīvi darbojas entuziastu grupa. Viņaprāt, Latvija kā valsts nav sevi pietiekami aizstāvējusi, pārdalot kvotas, taču atjaunot cukura ražošanu būtu izdevīgi.

Šis raksts ir izdrukāts no DELFI
Adrese http://www.delfi.ee/archive/article.php?id=19097422

Maybe I should try to be more basic. Let’s get down to it. What’s the difference between the many raging Bolshie babushki I heard twenty years ago saying what kind of country is Latvia if the state doesn’t own any factories and your cousin, Tālivaldi?

What is the basic philosophy and how is it expressed? Don’t sell factories? Keep things to ourselves? How would that work and who are ourselves? Is there a place where you can have such controls that’s not a closed society? If I want cheap sugar, and Latvian sugar costs more than it does in Estonia, people will get Estonian sugar across the border just like people get Belarusian cigarettes for 70 s here when the cheapest legal pack is Ls 1,23.

I try to keep an open mind and am willing to contemplate even the wildest alternatives. Hey, build a Great Wall and make Latvians eat Latvian apples, whatever. If you can show me how this would actually work, I’m willing to listen.

In the meantime, we live on a little planet where anybody who wants to can move to Ireland and make six or seven times what they earn here. You can build a wall, but don’t Latvians know all about walls?

And why would it even be necessary? Wouldn’t a more logical thing be setting some simple goals and taking advantage of the framework that’s available? You can either demonize Swedish banks or realize that Latvia had ample opportunity to pop the credit bubble.

Why didn’t we? Because many if not most in the government were quite high on the gas in the bubble. So it seems a little silly to blame the West for raping Latvia. Since we could easily have passed laws to direct investment into manufacturing instead of real estate, eh?

Well, not so easily, because the system doesn’t work, does it. Because we’re better distracted by ethnopolitics and inane bickering.

So then, in the next scene the mutant dinosaurs return to say they knew all along that they were right—Latvians can’t rule themselves. That is the strategy of the pro-Russian left. Will it get traction?

The trouble is that this is a horrible porridge of myths and half-truths. Vaimanoloģija.

Jā, Tālivaldi—like your cousin says, we’re free of everything? Except that it’s totally untrue—we’ve never, ever been free. How to deal with that? How would Valters have dealt with it? What do we actually want?

To pretend that it’s a fault of national character doesn’t quite work—except for a bunch of ideologues, not too many people on this globe are too happy with globalization à la mode. If the UK can’t stop the Cadbury sale—do you really think little Latvia will swim against the tide with any success?

I don’t see it. There’s a part of me that would love to see it, believe me. If there were to be any chance of swimming, though, it would begin with skills and not with whining.

Ai, ai, ai, those terrible foreigners have raped us again. If only this were Latvia, if only there were no Russians, if only we palatalized the “ŗ,” if only Ulmanis were alive, if only the Jews did not control finance, if only, if only, if only, if only…

It’s so sickening one could almost suffocate. One could at least understand people who just want to get out of here?

I’m no sugar expert, Tālivaldi, to be sure. But do silly two-dimensional myths get anybody anywhere? Do please answer the simple questions asked—why does Lithuania have a sugar factory? What is the WTO? Why did Latvia leave everything to fate?

What troubles me most is the sick ideology Western Latvians imported—laissez-faire to the extreme. In Sweden, the government has fantastically talented and accomplished people working to get around EU rules. In Latvia, we bend over. And all the whining in the world won’t change that, because regardless of the fact that the “free market” is a crock—there are no freebies.

When I first came here, in 1991, a woman in the corridors of power told me that she suspected that the government was out to destroy education so that it could manipulate people. It’s not a far-fetched thought. It’s the reality.

Ar cieņu,
/P

—- re: post 51—-

Anita the wishful Jabberwock speaker…“jabberwocks”

Ah! Another News of the Weird reader!
See, Miku, we have all sorts of common ground! I too read News of the Weird, I too can speak Jabberwock (granted not as fluently)... I’m sure there’s more.

Sadly Anita, you are indeed “trying too hard“. What I had quoted, came solely from printed newspapers.—-But fortunately for all, they only daily get very, very small print column space. (—- for even I sometimes feel editing is needed in “re-quoting” their news)

Mikus E.

P.S. Again, I have never gone to that url (website) that you seem to be taking a shinning in “boasting” about!
P.P.S. Common ground you say? What of your “mouthpiece“,  wrongly professing I should fess-up as well?—-If common ground is truly your objective, then fess-up.

PC states:

When I first came here, in 1991, a woman in the corridors of power told me that she suspected that the government was out to destroy education so that it could manipulate people. It’s not a far-fetched thought. It’s the reality.

You speak of “reality“... But can you still better frame this position?

Mikus E.

Labrīt, Miku!

What I’m alluding to is the prevalence of low manipulation in Latvian politics. I know people who decorate their letters with stamps issued by a right-wing group, blaming the EU for closing our sugar factories. Look at the facts. It’s really difficult to run a republic if the public slurps up silly myths or saturation advertising about everybody earning as much as those who work for the railroad because the Bulldozer knows how to get things done, etc. The less educated people are, the more easily they’re manipulated.

Vysu lobu,
/P

PC’s “low manipulation” in Latvian politics…
And hadn’t you already mentioned this before——what, no one bitting back then?:

When I first came here, in 1991, a woman in the corridors of power told me that she suspected that the government was out to destroy education so that it could manipulate people.

So should I now be confused by your other “previous” statement of “let the mayhem begin” in regards to the once looming implementation of Latvian educational guidelines? (And just who did chime in the same? ...Will she ever admit to that as well?)

Come on PC, by your explanation, all are guilty of “low manipulation”, whether it be by Sorus or by the new Democrats of the US. (Although… Who would actually still consider the “new” Democrats’ manipulation as just being “low”?

Heck, I used to paste down my postage stamps not over the common little note of “proper postage required” (or “will not be delivered if proper postage is not present”) on an envelope, but along side this area—- all done so not because I resented the “low manipulation” of the US government in requiring postage; but because I knew of at least one person whom thru his/her own effort of either purposely avoiding in affixing any postage stamp or (when this person realized that the mail just wouldn’t arrive because of the lack of a stamp), he/she would instead steam-off a badly cancelled stamp, re-affixing them on new mail.
This was MY “low manipulation“ in regards to these “people” that did force the postage laws to change simply because of their own selfishness!)

But I guess, the others who had additionally attached “free Latvia” stamps alongside with legitimate US postage stamps were as well, very guilty of PC‘s “low manipulation”?

Sooo, one has to wonder how you (PC) see yourself.—-As the one that often “lowly manipulates”?—-As the one that could had caused my original “ire”, motivating my particular postage stamp placement?

Mikus E.

P.S. Many would say pigeons are smart. ...And they would add that elephants are smart as well. (Despite that their brains differ greatly in weight?!) But are we not merely referring to the obvious, often visually proofed stubbornness of these animals? (Hey, anyone who “knows” about these animals will surely agree with me.—- As both are creatures of habit—- but aren‘t all animals so?)
Then in a contrast, if a human were just as stubborn, would not others then attempt to label this “stubborn” one as being less intelligent?—-But while wrongly labeling them “low manipulation” or “less intelligent“, these accusers will intently ignore that in humans, THAT there is indeed a right and wrong.
P.P.S. Is not PC really talking about “passive aggressiveness?—- The psychologist’s term? But don’t they merely see “brutally honest” as its fair balance? (Folks, let’s keep in mind that psychology can never be an exact science.)
P.P.P.S. SUGAR! At least agree that “sugar” was once productive for Latvia!—-And what of butter and hogs?

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE61117E20100210

How the poor can get poorer, and be OK about that
Tue Feb 9, 2010 7:04pm EST

Baltic governments chose austerity over stimulus