spectator et al.,

““Attempts to stamp out religion, whether in the late stages of the Roman Empire…...”

Yeah, atheist romans stamping out religion in the late stage of the Roman Empire ?

Visu labu,

Spectator, it must not have been the Roman Catholic Church which blessed the descent of Latvia into Germanic servitude for 800 years done under the guise of the Crusades going north and bringing Christianity to the pagans.

P.S. Your thesis incorrectly equates religion with morality and atheism with immorality, as opposed to focusing on who it is exactly that is perverting what creed, whether god-full or god-less, to their self-aggrandizing purposes.

Professed atheists live very moral lives because they are trying to prove that religion isn’t necessary for morality.

Ah so much thought. So much illusion.

Look at the world and what exists. How many of this world are Christian, how many are Jews, how many are Ismaelites ( Islam )
How many does that leave out?

It’s probably safe to say that at least 50%, ( but probably closer to 80% ) of the world’s population has a fundamental root in the Abrahamic story.

For some, that is not miracle enough. This world that can hardly agree on which sandwich should be served at the next school board meeting has found elements in faith that are basic and core to their entire existance while on this earth.

Dievturiba is just some nice folksy Lativain way of thinking that we are different/ special. It’s garbage.

The God of Abraham has influenced the entire globe for over 3000 years.

The gods of dievturiba have influenced a small minded populace for what… 300 years?

The Abrahamic God is part of every civilization, it’s creeds, it’s laws, rites of birth, rites of burial.
Sure it can be argued against.

But dievturiba has contributed nothing. A small paganistic leftover that only some Latvians still cling to for some odd form of nationality and recognizance.

Ilze seems to think there is some other god than the god of Abraham. Who would that be?

actually, itcyblob, dievturiiba is not that old. the folk tradition is just as old as long as
the ancestral latvians have lived on the baltic shores.
our ways do to us what other folk ways do to them.
there is no conflict here…..........maybe in your head.
a good place for it…..................................................LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dievturība

Ikabods Ozols - 27 August 2009 09:52 PM

Ah so much thought. So much illusion.

For some, that is not miracle enough. This world that can hardly agree on which sandwich should be served at the next school board meeting has found elements in faith that are basic and core to their entire existance while on this earth.

Dievturiba is just some nice folksy Lativain way of thinking that we are different/ special. It’s garbage.

The God of Abraham has influenced the entire globe for over 3000 years.

The gods of dievturiba have influenced a small minded populace for what… 300 years?

The Abrahamic God is part of every civilization, it’s creeds, it’s laws, rites of birth, rites of burial.
Sure it can be argued against.

But dievturiba has contributed nothing. A small paganistic leftover that only some Latvians still cling to for some odd form of nationality and recognizance.

Ilze seems to think there is some other god than the god of Abraham. Who would that be?

The Judeo-Christian God is hardly part of every civilization. “Contributed?”, well, yes, there’s a trail of genocide from the Crusades to Kosovo and Ireland. Any argument that one’s “G"od is more ubiquitous or more supreme than the next is a slippery slope of self-aggrandized faith.

spectator - 12 May 2009 05:40 PM

Professed atheists live very moral lives because they are trying to prove that religion isn’t necessary for morality.

How is it that not another day goes by that some politician or reverend attempting to legislate their version of morality is caught with their pants down and their winkie where it does not belong? Those that very obstreperously wear their faith on their sleeve live very immoral lives, proving that religion is immaterial to morality.

No civilization, no culture, no society has lasted long without religion.  In the US, the hippie communes of the sixties fell apart in a few years,  while the strictly religious communes of the Hutterites and of the Society of Brethren have held together for hundreds of years.  There is something in religion that binds people together, and most societies survive the occasional renegades that seem to upset the moral order.

vecrumba et al.,

“Those that very obstreperously wear their faith on their sleeve live very immoral lives, proving that religion is immaterial to morality. “

Religion is important to morality, because one then does not have to go to great lenghts of explanation about morality, especially to the illiterate and ignorant.  Question: ” Why shall I not Kill ?”.  Answer: “Because God said so !”  Period, no further discussion about the morality of it.

Visu labu,

God told Gee-Doobya to kill, and he killed millions…........

Before we get to deep in opinion and no facts, I suggest one reads “The Northern Crusades” by Eric Christiansen ISBN 978-0-14-026653-5 which gives a good analysis of how “Livonia” was conquered by the German Crusaders in the name of religion. Without proof, all opinions are only such and have no standing in the real life.

What little we know of ancient pagan cultures has in most cases been preserved in the notes of monks and missionaries.  Monks were more liberal and more tolerant than the crusaders and conquistadors who brought them along.  For example, without those notes, a lot of the New World cultures would have been lost.