Well .. I have to say that stirred an interesting debate.
Bruno asks: What do you know about Dievturibu ? What do you think they practice ? What are their creeds ?
But, Bruno and I have been in discussion before and that debate was well covered in the “Do Latvians belive in God” forum. It was well spoken by many as to what they believe, what they practice, and well “creeds”, I’m not sure if any advocate of Dievturiba really expressed that sufficient to anyone’s understanding, my resulting statement that “dievturiba sucks” was based on their writings and explanations.
Sniks says: He does not seem to comprehend that faith is a private or personal matter with many people. ( speaking about me ) . Is it really? Is it you who decides what god you should worship, or was it God that chose to put you on this earth so you could contemplate who He is?
You make it sounds like it’s our choice as to which god we serve, or to serve none at all. Hmmm… yes it is your choice. The bible says ” I put before you life and death, choose life”. God gives you free will to choose as you please. The choice you present, based on “what suits ME best” is what will give you eternal death if you choose wrong.
sniks says: “while my knowledge of Dievturiba is quite limited”
Well .. if it’s limited, why enter a conversation on “dievturiba sucks” unless you have something to say?
Sniks also asks: “Once again - I will ask - aside from personal readings - have you formally studied theology”
My answer is, what is formal study? Here we are at Easter time, and you sound like the Pharisee’s and the Sanhendrin who questioned Jesus teachings. Did he study theology?
I study the bible.
sniks says: but if you cannot discuss anything without just simply saying there is only one way
My answer is: it wasn’t me that said there was only one way. It was Jesus who said that. If you want me to look up chapter and verse next time, I will gladly do it.
Perhaps the Loudan Wainwright music makes the song palatable.
The first verse says not much
The 2nd verse first tells the truth and then adds a silliness when it says “it’s easy”
The 3rd verse is not biblical and is poetic license
The 4th verse makes no sense
Same as with many songs. They try to be clever and deliver something.. whatever that is, to those that it feeds.
sniks reply to your song was:
if we could convince Ikabods that in many cases we are looking at religion, and not faith.
Good God sniks, religion is crap! All religion is crap! Faith is the only thing that matters.
Your response was ... well .. not much.
“We do not revere the creation more or less than the creator.
Dievturiba and latvianism ARE intertwined”
Actually, I don’t understand your response. But your emphasis on ARE intertwined is actually at the CORE of my post. When I posted “do Latvians believe in God” I was shocked at the lack of response from Christains and the overwhealming response from latians who thought John, Laima, and the other host of gods written about appeared to be the soup de jour for latvians. How sad for all of you. Dievturiba offers you nothing but national identify. Oh….. how great is that?
Spectators comments were what? mediation? let’s find the middle ground. Well written, thought out, but.. oh I don’t know.
Ojars says: Sometimes it appears that the world was created by a committee
As you know, my belief is the world was created by God. Perhaps that committee may have include the Son and the Holy Ghost, but that’s as far as I can accept this thought.
Sniks says: but when we become disatisfied, it is very simple to find a new place of worship
Isn’t that right for most of the world, if something doesn’t suit us, we just go find like minded individuals who will agree with “our"philosophy of the world. This isn’t faith or religion. It’s self appeasement.
Mr LL’s last post was interesting and difficult to comment on. I’m not sure where he stands. I think, being a bit older than myself as he talks about life in the 30’s, that Dievturiba was not much in discussion in those days, and perhaps is a “new age” or for some an “Enlightend age of renewal” . But .. that’s my interpretation, LL will have to advise himself if he disagrees.
AS I said from the beginning, the posts have been interesting and an invigorating debate. There are few defenders of Dievturiba so far. More I’ve encountered the “how dare you day such things even tho I don’t believe in it myself” kind of comments. There are plenty of idiots I’ve run into who want to convice themselves that John, Laima, and who knows who else are gods that all Latvians should know. But I say, spend some time reading the Bible and find out who your God really is.
As Bruno says: Lisu labi