Thank you Mr. L. L;

There are several photo’s I have of my Grandfather in uniform, I can guess he did serve in the Latvian military. Another photo of he in uniform, I assume to be work related?
Would someone be kind enough to look at these photo’s and tell me perhaps what they represented (one appears to be a group military, perhaps another family member from here may be in it?)

By status I meant; if one had income was that also a threat for deportation?

“...By status I meant; if one had income was that also a threat for deportation?..”

Sure!  Anything that would make an invading army believe you might think for yourself and not “toe the line” was a threat for deportation.  Education, government position, management position, teaching position, ‘inside knowledge’ of any kind, money (stupid people usually don’t have a lot of money) - all those free-thinking patriots were a threat.

I also recently wondered as to whether Latvians felt worried by events in Europe in the late 1930s so I asked my dad about it who was 12 when Latvia lost its independence. I don’t know if this was a general feeling at the time or if many people felt differently, but the way he remembers it people didn’t really get worried until quite late on. It was only when the Russians demanded bases with use of threats and flooded still independent Latvia with troops in October 1939 that he remembers a real sense of unease. This became stronger in the winter of 1939-1940 when the Russians attacked Finland after they rejected Russian demands (I love the Finns). This was when my father and his family/friends realised how totally vulnerable Latvia was. Previously, they had assumed that any such Russian move would be blocked by the Brits and others but when this failed to materialise they realised that they were on their own. Even when the Red Army entered fully in June 1940, I’m not sure how many people realised quite how bad it would be - Latvians were used to Russian rule from pre-1918 and from what I’ve heard Latvians weren’t totally aware of the full extent of Stalin’s crimes in 1930s USSR, largely due to press censorship by Ulmanis.

Disa, both my grandparents (paternal) and (maternal) worked for the railroad.  My father’s father in Plavinas, which is in Vidzeme (the middle part of Latvia) and my mother’s father in Skangali, which is in the eastern part.  And, coincidentally, both of them died of pneumonia at a relatively young age, one in 1936, the other 1937.  Of course my parents, their families ,did not know one another at the time.  In Latvia those working for the railroad, according to my mother, had free housing, land given to them (about 3 acres--enough for a cow, horse, a couple of chicken and some other foul/livestock.  Medical facilities, doctors were free and they could ride anywhere in Latvia on the train without cost.  Sounds like a pretty good deal and it was, except when my grandfathers died and their families were forced to vacate the premises; my father’s family moved to Madona, which isn’t too far away and my mother’s family moved in with her grandparents, which wasn’t too comfortable of an arrangement on top of the trauma of losing a spouse, father.  And then not too long after that came the war years.

Before her loss, my mother, who was about 15 or 16 at the time, always describes her childhood as the happiest time in her life.  She came from a close-knit family, a daughter of four girls.  They certainly were not wealthy, did not have special status but did not want for hunger and the girls were allowed to spend their summers being carefree--playing, swimming in the nearby creek--having fun and doing what kids will do.  My father has passed away and he was always one of those reticent types of Latvians, who didn’t offer too much personal information about himself; but he often spoke about his childhood days, the escapades, ‘blenes’ he would get into with his younger brother, the two always in trouble with the ol’ man, my grandfather, who was very strict.  These stories were told with fondness, glee and much humor.  Later in his youth, he left home for Daugavspils where he put himself through engineering school.  So, overall, my impression is that life was good for him as well.  I would venture to say that most people my parent’s age, the ones I know, seem to have a high opinion, esteem for those years when Latvians accomplished so much in such a short period of time after the first world war.  Women’s suffrage came about in 1919, a privilege that most established democracies did not have at the time.  And it is well know that Latvia could boast about having one of the highest levels of literacy, standards of education.  Indeed, for many, these were the golden years, despite the vehement disagreements some may have here about it all just being a delusional myth, which I don’t care to get into, ahem...(we don’t want a fight to break out again, now do we)!!

And then came the spoilers, the wars.  As I hear tell, already in 1939, the Russians had started infiltrating, the real blows--arrests, deportations coming in 1940, 41.  My mother recalls standing on a railway platform with her sister, watching a train crammed full of people, women and children, screaming, wailing--while they just stood there, staring, watching, not knowing what was going on, what it all meant at the time--people being deported to Siberia.  A year later, in 1941, that same sister I mentioned, just happened to be riding her bicycle when she noticed all these buildings ablaze, heard gunfire and realized too late that she was caught in a cross fire between the advancing German army and the retreating Russians; the latter grabbing her up and taking her along with them.  She wasn’t heard from again; no one knew where she was, what had happened to her.  It was only in 1944, that she returned home again to Latvia, my mother and father already having left the country; he surely would’ve been arrested, deported for his involvement in the military.

Snik~ My father was also a scout or ‘skaut’.  I’m not sure what the difference is between N.A. and Lv, but my mother said thusly:  but skautam, tas ir liels gods, pie valsts organizacijam taka aizsargi. 

Irena

DisaW - I do not think that I can be much of help with your pictures of Latvian Railroads and Latvian army uniforms, but I am very interested to see them.  May I PM to you my e-mail address for the scans?

Mr. L. L.

Disa W:  Don’t worry; it’s a fractious bunch!  When there are arguments, (or heated discussion, if you prefer), people are just being themselves.

I have no enlightening info for you, except stories I heard from Latvian friends about various events and experiences.

Peace!

Alana

Irena ---

You cited your Mother as saying: “ but skautam, tas ir liels gods, pie valsts organizacijam taka aizsargi. “ I do not know the difference between Latvian “skauti” of 1934-1940 and Latvian Scouts in America or Canada.  I do remember that there was difference in my “skauta” time between various ethnicities. It is the first time though, that I learn that we were compared with “Aizsargi”.

In my files I have a photocopy (of a photocopy) of an article in “Australijas Latvietis” dtd July 18, 1980.  Author: J. M. im Melbourne.  Here is part of it, covering June 30, 1940.  As I undestand, this was the last time of public display of our flag.  No, I myself was not there.

Spelling errors are all mine, my OCR does not like Latvian language.

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Ausa svetdienas. 30. junija rits.  Mes, vaditaji, 7. Siguldas pulka pajugos ieradamies pie pieminekla, lai noliktu vainagu. Pa kapnem tuvojoties pieminekla platformai, musu prieksa izauga zenu ierinda ar Latvijas karogu. Tur raiba ierinda staveja nevien skauti. bet ari mazpulceni, jaunsargi un vanagi. Mums preti naca 10. juras skautu vienibas prieksnieks un zinoja: “ Vaditaj, mes esam savas vietas. Atlaujiet aizdedzinat sveto uguni!”

Bijam parseigti zenu pasierosmi un organizetaju spejam. Pec vainaga noliksanas meginajam pierunat zenus izklist bet vini velejas kopeja gajiena vispirms nosolot garam 7.Siguldas pulka mitnem. Ta ari tas notika.jauniesiem dziedot pazistamo dziesmu:
“Surp, jaunekli ar veja sparniem trauc,
Kad Latvija tev’ brivib’s gara sauc!”
Pecpusdiena pl. 13 organizeta jaunatne ar saviem karogiem ieradas Aluksnes dievnama. Tik iespaidigu karogu mezu dievnams redzeja pirmo un pedejo reizi. Visus dievludzejus baznica nespeja uznemt, un daudziem bija japaliek arpuse.

Pec karoga iesvetisanas, pasniegsanas un dievkalpojuma beigam sekoja kopejais gajiens uz Vienibas laukumu. Prieksgala, aiz 7. Siguldas pulka orkestra, sarindojas daudzie karogu neseji, kam sekoja simtiem jauniesu. Visu paradi Vienibas laukuma pienema 7. Siguldas pulka komandieris, Aluksnes policijas prieksnieks, pilsetas vecakais un citi goda viesi. Laukumu pildija tukstosiem apmekletaju. Kas aplausiem sagaidija katru jaunatnes pulcinu. Paradei sekoja sviniga karoga uzvilksana jaunaja masta, atskanot Latvijas valsts himnai.

Tai bridi laukuma atradas ari vairakas sarkanarmiesu grupas, ieskaitot virsniekus. Ari tie paradija godu Latvijas valsts karogam to sveicinot . Sarkanarmiesi izstiepas it ka garaki lai izskatitos stalti un vinu rokas palika ilgak pie cepurem. Kas zina, ko sveicinataji tai laika izjuta un domaja.

Tris stundas ilga programma risinajas raiti un ar sajusmu. Nekadas pazimes nebija par to, ka kads taisitos izpildit pieteiktos draudus. Laukuma neredzeja neviena ar sarkanu lentn ap roku, bet pie karogu novietnes staveja modrie karogu sargi.

Pienaca skumjakais. bridis - karoga nolaisana. Atskanot valsts himnas skanam, karogs vispirms izpletas veja, tad leni saplaka lidz nonaca karodznieku rokas. Daudzu balsis slapeja asaras, un tautas lugsana izskaneja it ka izmisuma speka. Druma klusuma atskaneja karodznieku dzidras balsis:
“ Klusi rokas uzliekam
Brivas Latves karogam...”

Laukumu pamazam atstaja lauzu pulki, sava vieta pametot tumsas parka koku enas.
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Thank you Mr. L. L. I would appreciate help if you could tell me what you think the uniform to be, please do PM me your e mail.

With great thanks to Elizabete who kindly translated a letter for me, I have found information on my great grandfather. Always assuming them to have been older in 1945, I was afraid they had been sent to Sibera. My great grandfather sadly died in his 40’s, he was killed in service in Smiltene in 1916 with the Latvain Riflemans 5th Battalion.
I smile to know he was a brave man for his country.

Mr. L. L. writes to me, Irena:

You cited your Mother as saying: “ but skautam, tas ir liels gods, pie valsts organizacijam taka aizsargi. “ I do not know the difference between Latvian “skauti” of 1934-1940 and Latvian Scouts in America or Canada.  I do remember that there was difference in my “skauta” time between various ethnicities. It is the first time though, that I learn that we were compared with “Aizsargi”

I admit that is a bit of a stretch.  I think she was just trying to explain what an honorable, special place the ‘skauts’ had in Latvia, as in your article, described as “modrie karogu sargi.” And I do thank you so very much for that very moving piece about the last public display of our flag, our ‘skauti’.  Lasot, noripoja asaras--mils, mils paldies!

Irena

I am still putting the rules of German Occupation on my website and when finished I will do the scouts for I have a few magazines of that era. The scouts of Latvia were slightly different for they got military training.

Courlander -

Please refresh my memory – what “military training” did the scouts in Latvia “got” ?

Mr. L. L.

Hang on to your shorts for again I will inform you after I get done with the German Occupation. Military training was expected of any male in the upper grades of school and the many magazines of that period showed that.

In Latvians on Faith > Do Latvians believe in God? at this time there are six pages overflowing with opinions and counter-opinions, arguments and counter-arguments.  And as in all quality flaming it is full of proving ones point with name calling. I did not read all of it, as much of it is way above my capabilities of reasoning. ;)

While I was typing the scout story above, I also mused about God and His popularity.
Just one sentence in my transcript, in my opinion, shoots down much of the trash in the “ . . .believe in God”, topic.

Think about it:

Visus dievludzejus baznica nespeja uznemt, un daudziem bija japaliek arpuse.

While it does not say anything by itself, I cannot help but admire the logic of courlander’s statements.

First he says: The scouts of Latvia were slightly different for they got military training.
Then he expands it to: Military training was expected of any male in the upper grades of school . . .

How we, scouts, were different if “any male” expected military training?

As courlander cannot keep his statements on the level in an informal conversation, what jungle will he unload on his website “when finished” ?

Mr. L. L.

Dear DisaW, Ilze, Irena, sniks, Mr L L, JKS, peter B, and courlander - thank you for sharing your stories.  It was very moving to hear about some of the joys and sorrows of your families through your honest, unembelished telling.