To Terry

“What worries me is what happens to us reprobates, , if I see a priest with a cross in one hand I just know he has a collection plate in the other , therefore the thing to do is close your eyes , keep a tight grip on your wallet and hopefully he will think he’s to late….anyway who wants to go to heaven, the rich have probably bought all the best spots by now, and even worse , “

There are many verses in the Bible that clearly explain that that money will not buy your way into heaven. In fact there is a pasage that says it would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven.

The priest who stands before you and makes you feel guilty about putting money into his collection plate is a false representative of the true god. It’s not about “works”, It’s about Grace.

The rich can buy nothing in heaven. I’m sure you heard the phrase “you can’t take it with you” The rich who think they’ve bought passage to a safe haven in Heaven are probably serving lunch to Satans concubines at this moment.

“No I’ll go below, here a few more hair raising stories from my dad and the Legion, meet a few old friends , roast chestnuts on the fire , mad isn’t it”

Mad? Yes. “Below” is a real place, not a cute joke.Get right with God, you don’t want to go “below”.

To Ilze
I just read those links you put up a few posts ago.
I don’t know if the “Old type” ( font ) was meant to impress, but was the first impression at the link you gave above for the folklorists.

It’s kind of funny “Lets reinvent history in an image that suits us” Now that I know Brastins died in 1942, I can now understand his anti semitic remarks posted earlier in this forum.

I suppose you thought that link would be enlightening, but it’s actually somewhat embarassing and should be left to the junk heap of history.

And the other link to the photo of some kind of monumnet “ an amateur historian”

All of you that have mentioned Brastins have got to be kidding me. If you understand this, you sound like a bunch of moonies ( cultists)

What do you get, from a souls perspective from this nonsence?

Ikabod - Let me ask a few questions.

1 - Does limbo still exist?

2 - Does pergatory still exist?

Weren’t these the places that were invented for those that were deemed not evil enough to warrant Hell - but were not quite acceptable enough for Heaven? But I think these were both done away with weren’t they? These weren’t just individual priests - this was the whole order - right?

Is it the “Holy Ghost” - or is it the “Holy Spirit”? Some orders can’t seem to make up their mind. So I guess it is either? Or is it both? Or is it neither?

It isn’t the Holy Christian Church though - it is the “Holy Catholic Church” - right? So even the church hasn’t left Christ at the top - they themselves hold that position - right?

Wasn’t Mary a mortal? Why is it that the prayer is to Mary - Mother of God? It is a widely held concept that by elevating Mary to this type status, that the church aligned itself with Baal. I personally see little in that idea - but how about we just quit knocking each other - and enjoy a reasonable conversation. If you don’t like something - or don’t agree with it - that’s fine - but maybe examine some of the knocks on your own.

Hello Ika, Being rich is a relative thing, how rich is rich ? it takes less than a £1000.00 per year in some parts of Asia and Africa to save a small village of people from starvation, So if you or any other Christian happens to have this amount hoarded in the bank , how do this square with your God..?
BTW I’m not trying to belittle your faith, I’m just interested in how its all mean’t to work.

Here’s someting that i saw on another LOL forum........enjoy.

http://tehvi.dv.lv/

Cornelius Tacitus once wrote about the difficulties that Romans had with the Christians: “Durum contra stimulum calcitrare.”

Ika, may G-d bless you also in Jesus name. Amen! So much for trinity, one and the same. I guess tossing out ill-conceived phrases is supposed to cover all your flanks, eh? Jesus loves us that we know, Ikabods Ozols tells us so! Kind of neat! This is supposed to lift one’s spirits above gloom and doom?

To me it appears that Ika has come to this forum with an agenda to even the score with Latvians for his own short comings, having failed in his mission on other forums (post # 10), and having failed to convince his own Latvian family of his own virtues. Ika, continues to irrationally drag the red herring across the forum not having anything substantive to add to his religious propaganda of weasel words and loaded repetitive phrases. When Ika was asked to justify his adamant views, he came up only with a silly diversion from the issue: “You want want what? Proof? God to throw down a million dollars at your feet every time you ask for it”? Guess that’s the best Ika can do other than exclaim “believe,” “faith” and “repent!” I’ve seen guys like that standing on the street corners of Manhattan. G-d bless them all!

~*~

Ika is a determined blind follower of Jesus, but whose limited knowledge of history is quite profound. After gleefully labeling Brastiņš and anti-Semite for writing: “What’s wrong with Christianity? Christianity began with the Jews and was forced upon us by the Germans---it does not fit with knowledge, nationality and being Latvian.” and my explanation to Ika of that comment: “If you were to think logically you would simply recognized the Jews and Germans were foreign to Latvians at that time and the issue simply was that Christianity from this foreign source “does not fit with knowledge, nationality and being Latvian.”

His deductive response (post # 43) is: “I can understand that Germans were foreign to Latvia, but Jews are not a country, it’s a religion. Jews were born in Poland, Germany, Latvia and other places. If a Jew is born in Latvia, does that make him a Jew first, and a foreigner? or a Latvian? If in Latvia a Protestant is born in Riga one day and a Catholic on the next, and a Jew on the third, which of these has a stigma through their lives based on their religion?. Certainly not the Protestant or the Catholic.”

Here Ika rattles on: “Explain it as you wish, but this is ignorance, idiocy and the folly of mankind. Including those Latvians that follow these doctrines of anti Semitism today. I’m sure it’s not ALL Latvians. But as of today, I don’t know how to quantify it, percentage in favor… percentage against, ... percentage in denial.”

Where were you indoctrinated or programmed to holler anti-Semite when the word Jews is mentioned? I hope that being clueless is not a prerequisite for Christianity. It was in 1184 when Bishop Meinhards, a German, first introduced the Catholic Christianity to the Latvian tribes. Coincidently the good Bishop is still buried outside of Dom church in Riga. There was not a Jew in sight on Latvian territory. They simply had not ventured this far northwest. According Latvian Institute the first Jew showed up around 1306. That was after more than 350,000 Latvian children, women and men had been wiped out by the crusading Christian hordes. Just to make it clear to you Ika, I have not heard anyone, historically or otherwise, blame the Jews for those Christian atrocities. Further more Frank Gordon, whom most Latvians know well by now, wrote in his brief history on Jews in Latvia that: “Jews started to settle in the present territory of Latvia after 1561 …” Btw, Ika, Frank Gordon lives in his Fatherland: Israel, but calls Latvia his “Dzimtene.”

Here Ika, bring yourself up to speed:

Jews in Latvia – Latvian Institute
http://www.li.lv/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=99&Itemid=468
Jews in Latvia in the early years – Frank Gordon
http://vip.latnet.lv/LPRA/fg_early.htm

(Continued …)

(… continued)

Ika continues to demonstrate his knowledge of Latvian history: “I have an old Latvian friend whose father proudly kept his SS photo on the refrigerator in his home in the 60’s. And I certainly know of others who’s stories were always hush, hush. Don’t tell me you think Latvians didn’t participate int [sic] extermination of Jews in Latvia, or are you going to give me the stupid reply that the Germans foreced [sic] it upon us.,.... ? Latvians of that era were willing participates. (Not all)( and not just in Latvia, it was a worldwide insantity, I know that )” I suppose that Ika was trying to make some connection with Brastiņš and anti-Semitism here.

Honestly, Ika are you this gullible or have you been programmed to respond the way you do? What was this Latvian SS man doing in the USA? How many Jews does he have on his conscience from the Holocaust? How come you did not report him to the authorities for deportation to LSSR and those others that had hush, hush stories or did you? This is the stuff you hear coming out of Kremlin and not from some one who professes to be a Latvian! Now tell us the historical facts where, how and when did the Holocaust in Latvia take place? What was the responsibility of the Latvian SS men at that time? Clueless Ika? Hint: there were no Latvian SS men at that time. What did the Nuremberg Courts say about the Latvian SS men? The Latvians that do get fingered for atrocities against the Jews was Viktors Arājs and his commandantures (in German: stab-in-the-back), who were not SS men, and did not act at the behest of any Latvian authority – there was none. Try reading Andrievs Ezergailis books and some articles on the Latvian Holocaust. You can also find his books at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum. This subject has been covered on LOL plenty of times, just browse around. You can report back to us after you have done your homework. You’ll be a better man for it.

Here’s a quick start for you:

THE HOLOCAUST IN LATVIA by Andrew Ezergailis
Andrew Ezergailis. The Holocaust in Latvia.Preface
Andrew Ezergailis. The Holocaust in Latvia. Introduction
EXTERMINATION OF THE LATVIAN JEWS IN 1941 by Margers Vestermanis
SELF-DEFENSE “COMANDANTURES” IN THE HOLOCAUST by A. Ezergailis
Folklore versus History: A Problem in Holocaust Studies by A. Ezergailis

~*~

Double-talk is a simple way on describing Ika’s position on judgmental factor and condemnation (post # 3) aspects that turns him off, yet judgmentalism and condemnation are the basis of his most common simple-minded approach to dismiss everything that does not align with his limited worldview. As to his worldview, he has yet to make and argument that goes beyond his rants “faith” and “believe.” Consider that he never brings up “reason,” “rational” or “logic.”

Deluded, Ika is at the point where he is repetitively trying to convince himself that he believes in G-d, but keeps bringing up “which God.” I don’t know “which God” Ika is talking about either, but as far as I’m concerned there is only one G-d. Those other deities that have been mentioned can be likened to little elves that are just helping G-d out around the house.

~*~

Here Ika blurts out that, “Ivars hasn’t really made a stance that’s been very clear has it? Re-read the post. He believes in Dievins, but perhaps Dievs can be called Ivars. Then Dievturiba is “fables” and he hates the bible.”

Is taking a stance a requirement of Christian thought reform? I’ve never said that I believe in Dieviņš or that I hate the bible. That’s where Ika’s personal musings come into play, in line with being low in reading comprehension. The Bible is an acceptable children’s book when you take out pornography and sanitize the rest of it.

It hasn’t been necessary for me to take any kind of a stance, as I stand on the sidelines on these two religions at the 50 yard line. They are all fables and most intelligent Latvians know that already. However, Martin Luther gets some credit for taking a stance. He had a problem with the Bible, the way the stories were told and I’m sure that we know the rest of the story.

~*~

Ika admires huge Biblical portions where little Latvia can be held in the palm of a hand or as Latvians would announce without hesitation “vienā šaujiņā.” For your information, since you do not understand Latvians Ika, the Latvians have never aspired to be the little fish in an ever larger fish bowl. They will gladly opt to be the little fish in a little fish bowl. The Latvians do have a collective reputation as “the mouse that roared” in the face of the enemy, which includes the Christian crusaders and the German Christian clergy and landlords.

~*~

Imagine my shock reading Ika’s unsubstantiated proclamation of the god of Ivars. It’s great Sunday school stuff while you’re grasping for straws, Ika! You get to keep your beany on.

~*~

The intelligent design created multiverses and it is time to give him credit where credit is due. But heavens forbid, Ika when you proclaim, while wearing your horse blinders: “Science, doesn’t really matter to me …” With new information at hand nowadays, we need to get beyond belief of our earthly moorings. Earth and our Biblical fables need new readings beyond the Christian zero sum society of yesteryear. We need to embrace a whole new level of Visums with its nucleosynthesis of visible energy and matter, plus dark energy and matter, black holes, et cetera. It gets beyond the fabled earthly creation of Adam and Eve. As the intelligent designer, G-d does not come with an inferiority complex as portraid in the biblical testaments. There are no sins attached in moving up one notch. All this in the name of beyond the Bible and belief.

Cheers, Ivars

While Ika is preoccupied with harping anti-Semitism, as part of his agenda, I do not doubt that he realizes that it is basically a “politically correct” term used to intimidate, much like hell in the Christian religion is used to intimidate. It is deliberate on the part of Ika. However, while anti-Semite is an expedient application and has become a houshold word, the term Semites is genetically incorrect towards many Jews that are not Semites. Consider that Jews are also from the Turkic stock having their roots in the great Jewish state of Khazaria, which existed from 652 to 1016. Khazaria is a subject that we discussed at some length on LOL some 5 or 6 years ago when Lilita was participating.

Think how easily anti-Latvian or anti-Balt could be used against Germans, Russians and even Jews or anyone else who crosses the line of contention. It does not work that way, as anti-Latvian has not been harped often enough to become an everyday word. The term would not be consequential. Thus, it would not have the same intimidating affect as anti-Semite. Besides, it is not in the character of Latvians to call attention to the discrimination against them from other ethnic groups as vividly as some groups do.

Cheers, Ivars

To Sniks
1 - Does limbo still exist?
2 - Does pergatory still exist?

To these questions, to my knowledge they’re not written about in the Bible. They are interpretations made by men. If you find this in the Bible, please point me towards the verse.

Holy Ghost vs Holy Spirit. It just word semantics. Ghost can be interpreted as “spirit”. What’s your point?

It’s the Holy Catholic Church? To who? The meaning of the word catholic is “universal”. So in a sense, for those that believe in Christ, it is a universal church. But the world view of Catholicism is based on the church based in the Vatican. That’s not a church I believe in.

“"Wasn’t Mary a mortal? Why is it that the prayer is to Mary - Mother of God? It is a widely held concept that by elevating Mary to this type status, that the church aligned itself with Baal."”

You are referring to the Catholic belief in Mary, what I call the “Cult of Mary”, and in a sense, yes I agree, this version of the church has perhaps alligned itself with Baal. This very strange reverence for Mary is not based on biblical teachings. It detracts from the true message of the Bible, which is that Jesus came to this earth to take away the sins of mankind permanently. Jesus is the head of the church, Mary was given the favor of God when He chose her to bear Jesus and in that respect she was “favored amongst women”, but the words of the bible are not about her. They are about Jesus, who is the center of the faith. Catholicism has distorted the truth, and deceived many. It’s the work of Satan.

Don’t confuse man’s interpretation of what the Church is vs what the Bible says.  The real meaning of “who is the church” is clearly written about in the Bible. The Bible holds the truth, not men. There are many “dead” churches in our midst.

To Terry,
“Being rich is a relative thing, how rich is rich ? it takes less than a £1000.00 per year in some parts of Asia and Africa to save a small village of people from starvation, So if you or any other Christian happens to have this amount hoarded in the bank , how do this square with your God..? “

The only thing that God asks us to do is to tithe 10% of what we own/ earn. He also knows that we are not perfect, and never will be. Which is exactly why we need Him.  If you’re rich, it’s because God gave you the grace to be rich. Apart from God we are nothing.

To Ivars

Noted you’re still foaming at the mouth like a rabid mouse. As usual you have rambled on with three pages of text that really test a persons patience to read thoroughly and still remain objective about your silly statements.

So lets start:
Who cares about Cornelius Tacitus. Was this reference intended to show your intellectual superiority and depth?

Now you can’t even type God, it has to be G-d. Why? If you don’t believe in Him, why hyphenate it? An act of anti reverence perhaps? What’s the point? Why not J-s-s?

“This is supposed to lift one’s spirits above gloom and doom?” There is no gloom and doom for believers in Jesus Christ. There is joy unspeakable.

Ok, the next few paragraphs were uninteresting, and it seems Ivars wants a bit of revisionist history regarding the holocaust and Latvian participation in it. What’s the name of that death camp just out Riga Ivars?

“Consider that he never brings up “reason,” “rational” or “logic.””

Is it only reasonable, rational and logical when it agrees with your narrow worldview Ivars? It seems that any argument that is contrary to yours will meet with the same diatribes of weaseldom and insult. You are pathetic.

“trying to convince himself that he believes in G-d, but keeps bringing up “which God.” I don’t know “which God” Ika is talking about either, but as far as I’m concerned there is only one G-d. “

Sorry, I don’t believe in G-d, I believe in GOD. And of course you don’t which God, because you believe in G-d. Which is a god of your own decision making, the soup de jour that fits your mood today, tommorrow it will be a different G-d.

“The Bible is an acceptable children’s book when you take out pornography and sanitize the rest of it.”
This statement really shows your ignorance in it’s most obviouse scope.

“They are all fables and most intelligent Latvians know that already”
So I assume you are one of those “intelligent” Latvians that can speak for the rest. So if another Latvian, aside from me, believe’s in Jesus, then that person is a fool as well. Yes, Ivars, the all knowing master of the universe who knows the answers that all should live by. Wow, what an ego you have.

Martin Luther had a problem with the Bible? What an idiot. You keep professing your superior understanding of history, but make such a stupid statement.  Martin Luther had a problem with the Roman Catholic Church which had the erroneous teaching that the pope was god’s representative on earth. He started the reformation, which was based on “solo scriptura”, soley on scripture ( for you that means the bible ) not based on all the edicts that the Catholic church had made up through the centuries leading up to that time. Luther had a problem with the Bible?

“With new information at hand nowadays, we need to get beyond belief of our earthly moorings. Earth and our Biblical fables need new readings beyond the Christian zero sum society of yesteryear. We need to embrace a whole new level of Visums with its nucleosynthesis of visible energy and matter, plus dark energy and matter, black holes, et cetera. “

What a bunch of nonsense. We can all live to 1000 years of age and never fully understand the universe and it’s many wonders. The Christian sum of society isn’t in the yesteryear as you suggest, it’s very real in the events of the present. What is Islam, but the offshoot of Ishmael ( Abrahams first son by Hagar ) , what is Christianity and Judaism but the offshoot of Isaac ( Abrahams son by Sarah ). Here, a story written thousands of years ago shapes world events today ( exactly as the Bible prophesized in the very first book of the Bible, Genesis ) with a billion + believers in Christianity and billion + believers of Islam, still at the center of world events that can effect even your life Ivars if a suicide bomber comes to your neighborhood.

You’re a man who wants to stick his head in the sand and bury it with your silly world view, and pompous false intellect. Thinking that insults will drive away faith. G--d luck to you.

Dear Ikabods,
I think you need to read the Bible more and preach your personal truth less.  I attended Lutheran grade school for eight years as a child, and if I learned anything of value from all my Bible reading, Bible verse memorization, and daily Bible study, it’s that “God” is Love and Peace.  I stopped singing “Onward Christians Soldiers” early on, even if I liked the catchy tune.  This might sound trite, but it really is as simple as just asking yourself - “What would Jesus do?” - and you’ll find yourself freed from bad thoughts towards Ivars, or any other Latvian, and you’ll find the inspiration of Jesus preventing you from arguing with Ivars or anyone else, including LOL Latvians, about God and Mother Mary.  (When I was in that Lutheran grade school, I often wished I were Catholic because I liked the idea of praying to at least one female.) You should know better than almost anyone, as a self-professed good Christian, that being a true servant of God/Jesus requires humility, turning the other cheek, and living by example.  “Being a good Christian” is not just another male competitive sport in which to try and be the winner.  Maybe you can find some fulfilling volunteer work with the poor or elderly, as the more appropriate manifestation of your Christian beliefs. 
Ivars may not have the kindest manner in trying to educate you about things Latvian, but I would suggest looking beyond his harshness and arrogance (G-d knows what that’s all about, except it seems to be a Latvian male thing here on LOL) and perusing some of the reading material he has suggested, which is excellent.  It’s really quite un-Christian to continue accusing your Latvian ancestors of crimes they never committed because you refuse to read books more authoritative than you about Latvian history out of spite towards Ivars.  It’s alarming to have “Latvians” be their own worst enemies by their inexcusable ignorance.  Why refer to a “death camp” outside Riga if you don’t know what you’re talking about?  Do you even know that Latvia was occupied beginning in 1940 (!) and continued to be for the following half century.  Imagine what you would be able to do if you were deprived of your liberty and occupied, and think really long and hard if you “logically” would be inclined as a first endeavor, while occupied, to create a “death camp,” as you stupidly suggest the Latvians did. 
Live your Bible wisdom and Jesus preachings and stop castings malicious aspersions against your Latvian people.
May Perkons never strike you, may Saulite smile on you, and may Laime still bless you despite your rejection of the wisdom of the Latvian folkways and the spirituality found in Latvian Mother Nature.

Thank you, Ambersun.

And I second that thank you!

Irena

A classical mediation. I lift my hat in reverence to the great post # 72 by ambersun. There are lessons to be learned by all of us, as in one corner or another the famous “Monkey Trial” will repeat itself until hell boils over.

~*~

Carpe Diem! Welcome back Ika! It’s good to read that you’re trudging along. I am glad to see that you are slowly learning a few ropes, such as phrases with a little zing and that you have dropped some of the false pretenses against Latvians per se. Yes, history is a difficult thing to learn for some people as the resistance mechanism encounters a hard rock. Meanwhile, venting is good for you when you lose self-control. It is so advised by psychologists and I do not hold it against you.

Before his so called start, he starts with a preface as he vents: “To Ivars … Noted you’re still foaming at the mouth like a rabid mouse. As usual you have rambled on with three pages of text that really test a persons patience to read thoroughly and still remain objective about your silly statements.”

That reminds me of an old tautas dziesma that we used to sing as kids around the campfire and elsewhere. This one is dedicated to you Ika and it is called “Kur tad tu nu biji …”

“Kur tad tu nu biji, āzīti manu?
Baznīcā, baznīcā, kundziņi mans.

Kā tad tu tur brēci, āzīti manu?
Mik mik mē, mik mik mē, kundziņi mans.”

TDz.

~*~

While hoping for the better, we now discover that Ika is not only clueless about Latvian history, but also Roman history and religious history (but more on this later). This time Ika vents with an added negative attitude again: “ Who cares about Cornelius Tacitus. Was this reference intended to show your intellectual superiority and depth?”

There was no intent to cause Ika’s inferiority complex to unravel, honestly. I can kick myself for being so callous by not taking Ika’s emotional feelings into consideration. Now that I realize, it’s the touchy-feely stuff that makes Ika run. Run, Ika run! Nevertheless, while I did not harbor high hopes, one would have thought that for someone who has “studied the Bible and the pro and con of other biblical writings for more then 17-years,” would have picked up a little Latin. That would provide some comfort to ensure that what was being read in English was not snookered during the translation from Latin as so often happens. Besides, it was a good test for the sixth sense, better known as the sense of humor without holding up a placard that says, “LAUGH!,” “SMILE!” or “HAVE A LIFE!”

As for “who cares,” Cornelius Tacitus was also the Roman historian who placed the Baltic tribes on the map of the world at the turn of the first millennium. Latvian historians look upon him with respect.

~*~

With “more then 17-years of studying the Bible and the pro and con of other biblical writings,” Ika is stumped again, this time by G-d: “Now you can’t even type God, it has to be G-d. Why? If you don’t believe in Him, why hyphenate it? An act of anti reverence perhaps? What’s the point? Why not J-s-s?” He continues defensively: “Sorry, I don’t believe in G-d, I believe in GOD. And of course you don’t which God, because you believe in G-d. Which is a god of your own decision making, the soup de jour that fits your mood today, tommorrow it will be a different G-d.”

Gees, but I do think of Dievs, G-d, God and the intelligent designer (ID) often. They are one and the same. It’s just not in the same mind set that you see your anglicanized GOD (not a part of the original Bible), a derivative of Gott from the good old German pagan days. Gott came from the days when folks used to stop by at the road and sniff the flowers, the nature of things. There was a much closer connection than there is with this man created Bible GOD. Since they are all one and the same variation of the All Mighty, no one plays the second fiddle.

I am surprised at you Ika! Some years back Lilita, who was much more knowledgeable about the Bible and religion in general, than you could ever hope to be, explained where the G-d came from and how it was applied. You appear to be clueless and inflexible to explore further.

For the benefit of other LOL readers, most students who really study the Bible, know that God does not want his name erased or defaced which can be found in Deuteronomy 12:3-4. Hence, there is a short cut so that others will not do that by accident or intentionally. Many Jews and even some Christians substitute letters or syllables using as an example G-d instead of God. The same holds for L-rd in place of Lord used for the Hebrew Adonai. I just brought it up here on LOL to see if it would peak an interest. Ika turned out to be clueless again as to what’s going on! Besides, God has many different names in the original Bible and word “God” is not one of them. If you are reading a religiously sanitized version of the Bible, which is not the real thing Ika, you’ve been taken.

(Continued …)