Hmm,
nothing of value to discuss in the recent posts. Nothing of the brilliant intellect we profess to be a part of. Brilliant thinkers, lost souls.Beautiful nation. culture and history, ..... that the world will never know. Latvia is defined by what it ‘s citizens believe, and what they project into the world. We will never be more than a footnote, a footnote most likley ignored by the rest of this universe, especially if we never come out of our narrow worldview that only Latvianism matters.( If you disagree with this point, make your argument about Latvia’s contribution to the world.)

IN this forum, I haven’t seen anyone stick up for Jesus. Not that Latvian believers don’t exist, they just weren’t reading this forum at the time, I suppose.

I hope that there are Latvians that believe in Jesus, and I believe there are plenty who do, their absence from this forum may only suggest their focus is elsewhere, and perhaps not into forums.

Dievturiba, a Latvians “only"guide to God? Give me a break. It’s beautiful and compelling folk history, but something that provides little impact in the world even within Latvia, and absolutley nothing outside of it.

Sadlyy, Dievturiba was mostly what I saw defended in this forum, and argued in favor of. So, the answer to my question of whether Latvians believe in God, was No. They believe in Latvia first, and God second, as long as it fits into a Latvian viewpoint. This is why Latvia has a good chance of facing extinction as we progress into the future.

The world is much larger than tiny Latvia. Accept Jesus as your personal Saviour. Your cup will runeth over. Be a follower of Christ first, and enjoy your unique place in the world as Latvian… second.

May God Bless you all in Jesus name.

Oh shucks, and I was just about to post a response to Ika on to a number of issues, but it goes into the garbage can. As they used to say in those good old Roman days: “When it comes to peddling Christianity it’s purgamentum init, exit purgamentum. As a self styled peddler for Jesus Ika is at the stage where he is beyond hope. His subjective God model having hit the skids is a dismal failure having run out of salesmanship tricks. It can’t even hold its own against tiny little Dievturi religion in the marketplace and no one is even pushing that. As they say, a crusading crusader is merely judged by the clothes he wears on his back and the flap of his lips that blow hot air. So much for Christianity Charm School 101. There’s no chance, none whatsoever, that we’ll see a Gospel of Ikabod, Ikabod 13:0 parva leves capiunt animas.

Slow on the up-take, Ika is not only clueless on Latvia and Latvians, for which he was shamelessly unprepared, but for him the world is still flat, fixed in mid space circled by the rest of Visums.

~*~

Ika’s lament. He clearly has lost self confidence in his know-it-all Christian peddler style and appears talking to himself for assurances: “IN this forum, I haven’t seen anyone stick up for Jesus. Not that Latvian believers don’t exist, they just weren’t reading this forum at the time, I suppose. … I hope that there are Latvians that believe in Jesus, and I believe there are plenty who do, their absence from this forum may only suggest their focus is elsewhere, and perhaps not into forums.”

If there were any Jesus freaks among Latvians, Ika, you’ve, for the most part have scared them away. You do not listen to people in the first place and than what they say you twist out of context. Hence, there can not be any serious exchange of ideas with you. It’s a one way street for you.

~*~

If any of you LOL readers and participants wonder about the inconsistencies in behavior that Ika is portraying, are fear struck by what the future may hold, think that you need to switch or just stop dancing in your tracks, don’t be, your not alone. Read on.

The other day I chanced to read Bertrand Russell, a brilliant man and who at least rationalizes his points, “Why I am not a Christian.” This led me to wonder what some of the world’s famous men think of the Christian religious model when there are other religious models up for grabs. They are all created by man, by the way, and not the other way around.

Here is what some of the Founding Fathers of this great nation, The United States of America, thought of Christianity:

Thomas Jefferson (American Statesman, 1743-1826)

“There is no one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites.”

“The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites.”

“But a short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of the Jewish religion, before his principles were departed from by those who professed to be his special servants, and perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind, and aggrandizing their oppressors in Church and State.”

“In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them, and to effect this, they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer for their purposes.”

“Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity.”

“...I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians.”

“Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.”

~*~

James Madison (American Statesman, 1751-1836, Co-Author Declaration of Independence)

“In no instance have ... the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people.”

“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.”

(To be continued …)

(… continued)

Benjamin Franklin (American Statesman, 1706-1790)

“Original sin was as ridiculous as imputed righteousness.”

“As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion...has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble.”

“I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity.”

~*~

Thomas Paine (American Statesman, 1737-1809)

“It has often been said that anything may be proved from the Bible; but before anything can be admitted as proved by the Bible, the Bible itself must be proved to be true; for if the Bible be not true, or the truth of it be doubtful, it ceases to have authority, and cannot be admitted as proof of anything.”

“Of all the systems of religion that were ever invented, there is none more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory in itself, than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, it renders the heart torpid, or produces only atheists and fanatics. As an engine of power it serves the purpose of despotism; and as a means of wealth, the avarice of priests; but so far as it respects the good of man in general, it leads to nothing here or hereafter.”

“It is the fable of Jesus Christ, as told in the New Testament, and the wild and visionary doctrine raised thereon, against which I contend. The story, taking it as it is told, is blasphemously obscene.”

~*~

Here are what other famous people have said about Christianity, which Ika is pushing:

Bertrand Russell (British philosopher, 1872-1970)

“Christianity has been distinguished from other religions by its greater readiness for persecution.”

“The whole contention that Christianity has had an elevating moral influence can only be maintained by wholesale ignorance or falsification of the historical evidence.”

“I say quite deliberately that the Christian religion, as organized in its churches, has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world.”

“So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.”

~*~

George Santayana (American philosopher and professor, 1863-1952)

“The Bible is a wonderful source of inspiration for those who don’t understand it.”

~*~

Oscar Wilde (Irish author, 1854-1900)

“When I think of all the harm the Bible has done, I despair of ever writing anything to equal it.”

~*~

Leo Tolstoy (Russian writer and philosopher, 1828-1910)

“I believe Christ was a man like ourselves; to look upon him as God would seem to me the greatest of sacrileges.”

~*~

H.G. Wells (British author, 1866-1946)

“The greatest evil in the world today is the Christian religion. I think that it stands for everything most hostile to the mental emancipation and stimulation of mankind. It is the completest, most highly organized system of prejudices and antagonism in existence. Everywhere in the world there are ignorance and prejudice, but the greatest complex of these, with the most extensive prestige and the most intimate entanglement with traditional institutions, is the Roman Catholic Church. It presents many faces to the world, but everywhere it is systematic in its fight against freedom.”

~*~

Abraham Lincoln (American Statesman, 1809-1865)

“The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.”

“My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures have become clearer and stronger with advancing years, and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them.”

~*~

Albert Einstein (Scientist, 1879-1955)

“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God.”

“I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own - a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifested in Nature.”

“If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.”

(To be continued …)

(… continued)

Mark Twain (American Writer, 1835-1910)

“The Bible is a mass of fables and traditions, mere mythology. It ain’t the parts of the Bible that I can’t understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand.”

“There is one notable thing about our Christianity: bad, bloody, merciless, money-grabbing and predatory as it is - in our country particularly, and in all other Christian countries in a somewhat modified degree - it is still a hundred times better than the Christianity of the Bible, with its prodigious crime- the invention of Hell. Measured by our Christianity of to-day, bad as it is, hypocritical as it is, empty and hollow as it is, neither the Deity nor His Son is a Christian, nor qualified for that moderately high place. Ours is a terrible religion. The fleets of the world could swim in spacious comfort in the innocent blood it has spilt.”

“During many ages there were witches. The Bible said so. The Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after doing its duty in but a lazy and indolent way for 800 years, gathered up its halters, thumbscrews, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood. Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One does not know whether to laugh or to cry.”

‘The so-called Christian nations are the most enlightened and progressive ... but in spite of their religion, not because of it. The Church has opposed every innovation and discovery from the day of Galileo down to our own time, when the use of anesthetic in childbirth was regarded as a sin because it avoided the biblical curse pronounced against Eve. And every step in astronomy and geology ever taken has been opposed by bigotry and superstition. The Greeks surpassed us in artistic culture and in architecture five hundred years before Christian religion was born.”

~*~

Mahatma K. Gandhi (Indian nationalist leader, 1869-1948)

“I hold that proselytisation under the cloak of humanitarian work is unhealthy to say the least. It is most resented by people here. Religion after all is a deeply personal thing. It touches the heart. Why should I change my religion because the doctor who professes Christianity as his religion has cured me of some disease, or why should the doctor expect me to change whilst I am under his influence?”

“I regard Jesus as a great teacher of humanity, but I do not regard him as the only begotten son of God. That epithet in its material interpretation is quite unacceptable. Metaphorically we are all sons of God, but for each of us there may be different sons of God in a special sense. Thus for me Chaitanya may be the only begotten son of God ... God cannot be the exclusive Father and I cannot ascribe exclusive divinity to Jesus.”

~*~

George Bernard Shaw (Irish author and playwright, 1856-1950)

“The Bible is hopelessly pre-evolutionary; its descriptions of the origin of life and morals are obviously fairy tales; its astronomy is terracentric; its notions of the starry universe are childish; its history is epical and legendary: in short, people whose education in these departments is derived from the Bible are so absurdly misinformed as to be unfit for public employment, parental responsibility, or the franchise.”

“I see little divinity about them or you. You talk to me of Christianity when you are in the act of hanging your enemies. Was there ever such blasphemous nonsense!”

~*~

Napoleon Bonaparte (Emperor of France, 1769-1821)

“As for myself, I do not believe that such a person as Jesus Christ ever existed; but as the people are inclined to superstition, it is proper not to oppose them.”

“I am surrounded by priests who repeat incessantly that their kingdom is not of this world, and yet they lay their hands on everything they can get.”

~*~

Charles Darwin (English naturalist, 1809-1882)

“I can hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true; for if so the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my Father, Brother and almost all my best friends, will be everlastingly punished. And this is a damnable doctrine.”

~*~

Friedrich Nietzsche (German philosopher, 1844-1900)

“… an absurd problem came to the surface: How COULD God permit that [crucifixion of Jesus Christ]!...the deranged reason of the little community found quite a frightfully absurd answer: God gave his Son for forgiveness, as a SACRIFICE...The SACRIFICE FOR GUILT, and just in its most repugnant and barbarous form-the sacrifice of the innocent for the sins of the guilty! What horrifying heathenism!”

“A certain sense of cruelty towards oneself and others is Christian; hatred of those who think differently; the will to persecute. Mortal hostility against the masters of the earth, against the noble, that is also Christian. Hatred of mind, of pride, courage, freedom, libertinage of mind, is Christian; hatred of the sense, of the joy of the senses, of joy in general is Christian.”

(To be continued …)

(… continued)

Jean Jacques Rousseau (French philosopher, 1712-1778)

”Christianity preaches only servitude and dependence. Its spirit is so favorable to tyranny that it always profits such a regime. True Christians are made to be slaves, and they know it and do not mind; this short life counts for too little in their eyes.”

~*~

Thomas Huxley (English biologist, 1825-1895)

“The dogma of the infallibility of the Bible is no more self-evident than is that of the infallibility of the popes. The Bible account of the creation of Eve is a preposterous fable.”

~*~

Victor Hugo (French novelist, 1802-1885)

“Hell is an outrage on humanity. When you tell me that your Deity made you in his own image, I reply that he must have been very ugly.”

“There is in every village a torch-the teacher; and an extinguisher-the clergyman.”

~*~

Annie Besant (British Theosophist, 1847-1933)

“For centuries the leaders of Christian thought spoke of women as a necessary evil, and the greatest saints of the Church are those who despise women the most.”

~*~

Archbishop Desmond Tutu (S. African cleric and peace activist, 1931 -)

“When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said, “Let us close our eyes and pray.” When we opened our eyes we had the Bible and they had the land.”

~*~

Voltaire (French Philosopher, 1694-1778)

The son of God is the same as the son of man; the son of man is the same as the son of God. God, the father, is the same as Christ, the son; Christ, the son, is the same as God, the father. This language may appear confused to unbelievers, but Christians will readily understand it.

“Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd and bloody religion that has ever infected the world.”

God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.

~*~

Those quotes above are dedicated to to the many gifted Latvian women and men who sang Latvian folks song, told Latvian folk tales and danced in the fields and meadows on our Latvian soil over three centuries thus maintaining our culture and traditions.

Where Ika has no clue is that Latvian people died and suffered at the hands of their Christian masters and religious leaders so Ika ironically can express love for Latvian music, poetry and dance. “In the New Age, particularly in the 16th and 17th centuries, preaching against the folk-song was succeeded by witch trials and the burning of witches and wizards, which continued in Latvia up to the 18th century. Many a good woman, gifted with rich memory for folk songs, and many a good teller of stories and proverbs died a martye’s death, being burnt at the stake. It is significant that the first written-down fragments of Latvian folk-songs are to be found in the records appertaining to the trial of witches in 1584. But neither the burning of witches nor the wrath of the German clergy ever succeeded in stamping out the folk-songs ...” (N.B. – “Latvian Literature,” Jānis Andrups and Vitauts Kalve, 1953.)

Dus est regit qui omnia, Ivars

:lol: Archbishop Desmond Tutu (S. African cleric and peace activist, 1931 -)

“When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said, “Let us close our eyes and pray.” When we opened our eyes we had the Bible and they had the land.”

Hee Hee Hee, I like that one..and oh so true…

RE Ernests Brastins 1892-1942:  see http://folklora.lv/vestkopas/folkloristi/delis.cgi?read=1181

see also: http://riga-cd.infolatvia.com/statues/people/brastins/brastins.html

As you can see, he grew up & was educated pre-latvian independence.  He was shot to death in the soviet prison camp in Astrahana.

“Atheism is the most ridiculous, the most absurd and bloody religion that has ever infected the world” - Spectator

So Do Latvians believe in God?

Is Jesus God?

Can Latvians be so removed from the world that proponents like Amanda Jatniece and Arvids Brastins
can actually convice a small group of misguided people to think that Dievturiba really has any spiritual meaning?

And then we have some others suggestiing other Latvian gods like “Perkons, Piikols & Potrimps’ Not to mention Laima, Mara, Usins, Jumis, Martins, Janis. I can see adding Ivars to this group of imposters.

And of course there is Ivars with his consitent mantra that science is the only real answer, spending unusual amounts of time locating quotes from homosexuals, communists, “some” great statesman but who cares, they lived centuries ago and the value of their words can easily be contradicted by other great statesmen who believed in God. It was a pointless and useless waste of time on Ivars part.

The question isn’t about what other people believe. The question is “what do you believe”?

Biblical prophecy has us, our time, squarely placed in the end times. This isn’t the ramblings of someone you may think is just a religious fanatic, these are firm beliefs of many who study and have studied the bible. We see the changes taking place, and they are totally in line with what the bible says. You don’t have to believe me, and I know some don’t, but.. if you read the bible you will find it. A book written 2000 years ago, with prophecies coming true today SHOULD be hard to ignore, but many do a good job of ignoring it.

Repent. Accept Jesus as your personal Saviour and enjoy live everlasting.

In Jesus name.

Amen

I wonder if stalin repented on his death bed and now enjoys “Life everlasting” the same goes for hitler, how about all those despots whom have murdered in the name of god, do these need to repent, or do they have a back door key..

Ilze ~ that is a good link (post # 52) to Vecrumbas web site on Dievturība. An excellent article plus discussions. I would recommend LOL readers to take time out and pick up some pointers on the history of Latvian Dievība and what’s transpiring with this folklore.

~*~

Spectator (post # 53) ~ whoa, how do you make a religion out of atheism? Well, I guess that could hold true for certain conditions, such as Buddhists who do not have a god. Each Buddhist does have his own spirit and you do not mess with the top of a Buddhist’s head unless you want to upset the spirit.

Otherwise, I have yet to meet anyone who is a pure atheist. Usually those that say they are atheists use a disclaimer “what if!” Even atheist Richard Dawkins, a brilliant man, peppers his interviews and articles with “what if.”

I think your support of the anthropic principle, a few years back on LOL, built it up for the intelligent designer. But to think about all those constants, in my school days we used to call them fudge factors. Now they may have a meaning after all.

~*~

Ahh, balamute Ika parādijās kā jau pats nelabais ar saviem ragiem! Sounds like a desperate propaganda lejerkaste going off at the deep end! It’s like music, something from Dante’s Inferno with scratched tracks, watching Ika go into a display of religious rage. Of course his lack of reading comprehension does not endear a following. I wonder how many of you LOL readers have been intimidated by Ika’s senseless threats, ranting and raving? Would you want this faker to recruit you and lead you to the Promised Land? Would you entrust your life in the hands of Ikabods Ozols? He does claim on post # 19 “…led me to believe that the Bible as the literal word of God through the revelations I received.” That’s high and mighty when one receives revelations from God and then blows it when he tries to make his case.

Folks, all you have to do is just read Ikabods Ozols post # 54, his selection, or the lack, of words and judge the accuracy and the honesty of his comments. Form your own opinion how valuable do you think the dolt contents of his post are? Be your own person, as there is no need to be RC (religiously correct), which rhymes with PC (politically correct). We are living in the 21st century and people are better educated and cannot be conned like in the past.

Perhaps Ika’s behavioral pattern is a song and dance tryst to make some connection with his past. Ikabod is an old Biblical name, a variant of Ichabod. In Hebrew it means “the glory is gone,” or inglorious, based on the birth mother saying “The glory has departed from Israel” “Son of Phinehas and grandson of the High Priest Eli. He was born at the hour of the Ark of Covenant’s capture by the Philistines and was named to commemorate the unfortunate event.” So much for stage names.

~*~

Terry ~ Stalin was believed to have been murdered, poisoned (rat poison) by his devoted followers. They probably made sure that he did no whimper to anyone, not even God.

But here’s what Svetlana, his daughter, recalls: ”He suddenly opened his eyes and cast a glance over everyone in the room. It was a terrible glance. Then something incomprehensible and awesome happened. He suddenly lifted his left hand as though he were pointing to something above and bringing down a curse upon all of us. The next moment after a final effort the spirit wrenched itself free of the flesh.”

And here’s what Nikita Kruschev, you all know who Niki is, recalls: “… Beria had, immediately after the stroke, gone about “spewing hatred against [Stalin] and mocking him”, and then, when Stalin showed signs of consciousness, dropped to his knees and kissed his hand. When Stalin fell unconscious again, Beria immediately stood and spat.”

Cheers, Ivars

Hi Ivars, “Stalin raised his hand to the ceiling “ perhaps he was only waving “goodbye friends…”

Presumably , if he had, had access to a man of god he would now be in heaven, according to Christian tradition..
What worries me is what happens to us reprobates, , if I see a priest with a cross in one hand I just know he has a collection plate in the other , therefore the thing to do is close your eyes , keep a tight grip on your wallet and hopefully he will think he’s to late….anyway who wants to go to heaven, the rich have probably bought all the best spots by now, and even worse , Cliff Richards career has died a death down here so he is going to resurrect it up there…
No I’ll go below, here a few more hair raising stories from my dad and the Legion, meet a few old friends , roast chestnuts on the fire , mad isn’t it…

Looking over Ikabods first post here, he explains that his family’s experience includes atheists, “nationalists” (are those the Dievturi in your family?), lutherans and catholics.  But he readily admits that none of those brought HIM faith; he doesn’t try to understand what these are, anyway. I do think that perhaps his family members HAVE faith in God, just not in a way Ikabods understands. 

OK, then his Italian family showed him another (equally viable, but different) path to faith in God.  Having “...accept(ed) Jesus as my personal Savior...” Ikabods now thinks his is the ONLY path to faith in God. 

He poses the question - “So… Do Latvians believe in God? “ when the question should have been “So… Do Latvians believe in God - exactly the same way I do?”

The answer still could be yes - for some people.  Plenty on the web about Latvians/Jezus etc.  Just got to look.

There are reasons why Ikabods family doesn’t understand what he is talking about.  His attitude of “my way is the only way” doesn’t sit well with people who have (historically) heard the same thing from soviets in power in praise of their communism.

To Ilze
“Looking over Ikabods first post here, he explains that his family’s experience includes atheists, “nationalists” (are those the Dievturi in your family?), lutherans and catholics.  But he readily admits that none of those brought HIM faith; he doesn’t try to understand what these are, anyway. I do think that perhaps his family members HAVE faith in God, just not in a way Ikabods understands.  “

There are a lot of statements in your assessment, and really with the limited amount of understanding you can have of my life’s experiences, you can only come to the conclusions you can based on the limited amount of information in this forum. Ok that’s fair.

Atheists were pretty easy to find in my family. Whether this is a latvian “condition” is for others to validate or not. For me, it was a fact, I have family members who insisted that no clergy be present for any memorial service upon their deaths.

Nationalists?: I never heard anyone in my family discuss Dievturiba in my formative years, my sister seemed to have given it some lip service maybe 15 - 20 years ago, but never got very “emphatic” about this belief. It was however, my first awareness that there is a “tribal” religion, but I was soewhat shocked to find the vehement defense of it in this forum as it was unexpected. Lativanism was very prominent, not in just my family experience but in many of the families that I encountered in Post war US. .. 1950’s and 60’s. As I grew up, I thought that being Latvian was the end all, be all.

Wnen you say “he doesn’t try to understand what these are, anyway” I’m not sure if your talking about Lutherans, catholics, dievturiba or exactly what you think I’m not trying to understand.

The process of coming to any kind of faith, at least for me, is to come to terms with what the world around me is telling me . Which was “You must believe"” Do as we say” vs that which my soul, my inner being was screaming at me about.

Because my history, my family’s traditon, my cultural history and so on says “I must believe” as they do, has always been a rallying cry in my soul that simply said “ No I don’t” “I’ll believe as I choose”

“I do think that perhaps his family members HAVE faith in God, just not in a way Ikabods understands. “

Again, for sure, you don’t know what my family believes, so your statement is out of line. If you don’t know me or my family, what can you know for certain to make such a statement?

Your point was, obviously to say that maybe I don’t understand my family because they don’t believe as I do. The reality is they believe as they do. When I presented a different point of view, which is biblical, and written in the bibles they have in their pews, nothing added, nothing new, they didn’t understand. Which is OK by me, but when I talk about Latvianism, I saw in my family and other Latvian families that faith in God or Jesus was secondary ( if at all ) to the passion of being Latvian.

Being Latvian is the God, or allmighty purpose. Dievturiba without a doubt supports this ideology. Our culture and history are above all things. When in reality, Latvia, beautiful as it’s culture is, is not even a footnote to the world’s story of mankind. And probably so because of their unbelief.

What does the bible talk about? It starts with Abraham, his son Isaac who is the forefather or Jews and Christians, and Ishmael, the founder of Arabia and eventually Islam. Look at the world today, there are over 1 billion each of Muslims and Christians, and despite the Satanic effort to eradicate Judaism… they are still here and still at the center of world events. And for God’s own purposes he found it “funny” I suppose to put the world’s oil reserves under Arab lands.

I think it would be very difficult for you to argue the impact of the God of Issaac, Abraham and Joseph on the world even today in the 21 st century. Believe it or not, the biblical story is still affecting our planet in huge ways today. If you can’t see that, then… well, maybe time for some eye drops.

“He poses the question - “So… Do Latvians believe in God? “ when the question should have been “So… Do Latvians believe in God - exactly the same way I do?””

You bring up one thing from previous posts, but then omit them later. You’re right, I said later in the posts that perhaps I should have said “ Do Latvians believe in Jesus” , you paraphrased by saying
exactly the same as I do” .  Well OK, that’s a good attempt at distorting what I said, but it has nothing to do with “exactly” the same as I beleive. I believe in Jesus, as millions of people on this earth do, need proof? Your statement makes it sound like I’m the only one on earth who believes in Jesus. So yeah, as the original post went, I had no idea I would run into such unbelief and have been surprised by the responses. But it does answer a specific question for me: As I suspected: The Latvians that I have encountered in all of my life’s experience have shown me that Latvians don’t believe in Jesus, not all of course, but predominantly have made “being Latvian” their god.

What’s wrong with that? Judgement day is coming. That’s what’s wrong with that.

God bless you all

For those of you who believe in the god of Ivars

( If that’s a god at all, it’s hard to figure out what he believes, he’s very definite about what he doesn’t believe. Maybe he would like to clarify what it is exactly he believes in )

OK, so I think I’ve made it quite clear that I believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and my personal Saviour and Redeemer. I understand that not all of you believe that, but.. it’s Ok with me, it’s what I believe. Call me what you will.

Ivars hasn’t really made a stance that’s been very clear has it? Re-read the post. He believes in Dievins, but perhaps Dievs can be called Ivars. Then Dievturiba is “fables” and he hates the bible.
I don’t know if he can admit to it, but he sounds like an atheist to me. He doesn’t belive in god, he belives in Ivars. Ok, noted, we’ve been nasty in our response to each other, but really, does his viewpoint suggest a faith in God? Ilze might say “which God”? to me there is only one.

I don’t think I’ve left any doubt about which God I believe in. Ivars has offered a myriad of potential options, and/or alternate views, but hasn’t been clear about any. Sure, you can go through life this way. I have peace in my soul due to my acceptance of Christ. That’s my story. You are all individual souls with your own choices to make. As the bible says, I place before you life and death “choose life”.

Latvianism is a small footnote to the worlds story, it has beauty and glory, but in the big picture it’s not even on the screen.  Don’t put your faith in Latvian folklore, put it in Christ Jesus. It won’t take away from your love of Latvia. But Dievturiba and other pagan beliefs will seperate you, perhaps eternally, from God. “You will know them by their fruit.” This means that teachings that are truthful will bear fruit, and teachings that are false will bear none. Which is why I asked repeatedly in this forum for someone to say what fruit does Dievturiba have? It has no priests, no mission, no outreach programs, no soup kitchens, NOTHING to help anyone anywhere. It has no fruit, it offers nothing but to a few select Latvian individuals, for whatever purpose it serves them.

What does Christianity have? Faults, many imperfect people to be sure. But yes it has ministry, it has support services, it has soup kitchens, outreach programs, feeding the world programs, LOVE for the unloved. The promise of Salvation

And more

Believe in it or not, true Christians are a positive force in the world for good.
Dievturiba does nothing for the world, and serves only a limited purpose for it’s adherents
Atheism serves Satan and his objectives.
Islam serves Satan and his objectives
Judaism will come to understand that Jesus Christ is the true Messiah.

Sorry if you don’t agree, that’s my belief.’
God Bless you all
Ikabod